Comments on: Looking At The Costs And Benefits Of Installing A Windmill / Wind Turbine http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/ Simple, applicable personal finance advice for the modern world Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:50:09 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Jeffrey ward http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-620172 Jeffrey ward Sat, 11 Apr 2009 18:31:54 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-620172 I purchased a skystream it worked 6 months and made next to nothing for power it quit completly the company SWWP could care less trust me stay clear you wont make power and you will loose your money I am fighting right now and getting no results I purchased a skystream it worked 6 months and made next to nothing for power it quit completly the company SWWP could care less trust me stay clear you wont make power and you will loose your money I am fighting right now and getting no results

]]> By: Rick http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-297822 Rick Sat, 07 Jun 2008 21:18:56 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-297822 From what I have read large windmills carry not only a high price, but when they need maintenance it requires an engineer. This is why in foreign lands, say such as some poor communities in tropical islands in the east where windmills have been donated, they now sit there like statues, unmoving, useless, and with no availability of maintenance to make them truely viable. I am quite compelled by Lucien Gambarota's fairly New Micro Wind Turbine technology. You have to check this out... http://edition.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/03/18/wind.tech/index.html http://www.reuk.co.uk/Hong-Kong-Micro-Wind-Turbine-Arrays.htm I think this could more effectively put this sort of technology into the general populous' hands. Thank you for the article/blog, Trent, and the opportunity to share ;^) From what I have read large windmills carry not only a high price, but when they need maintenance it requires an engineer. This is why in foreign lands, say such as some poor communities in tropical islands in the east where windmills have been donated, they now sit there like statues, unmoving, useless, and with no availability of maintenance to make them truely viable.
I am quite compelled by Lucien Gambarota’s fairly New Micro Wind Turbine technology. You have to check this out…
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/BUSINESS/03/18/wind.tech/index.html
http://www.reuk.co.uk/Hong-Kong-Micro-Wind-Turbine-Arrays.htm

I think this could more effectively put this sort of technology into the general populous’ hands.
Thank you for the article/blog, Trent, and the opportunity to share ;^)

]]> By: Jim http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-80633 Jim Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:31:38 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-80633 Your calculations are off. Mainly your assumption that you could realistically get 650 KwH out of 10 MPH winds. The usable power in the wind goes by the cube of the wind speed. That means if you double the wind speed, you can get 8 times the power out of it. So if you cut the wind speed in half, you have to divide your usable power by 8. Actually, there's a graph on the brochure for the Skystream 3.7 that shows estimated monthly power you could get out of one of their machines, and at 10 MPH it looks pretty close to 240 KwH. At that rate, the return on investment is more like 29.5 years. Where I live grid power costs a lot less than that so it's even worse. Put that $8500 into an investment and wait a few years until the price on these babies comes down. Or, if you like to tinker with these things, building your own really is an option. This isn't rocket science; the mechanical technology had been around for millenia, and the electronic technology has been around for decades. That otherpower.com web site shows a lot of them that have been done. Complete with pictures, formulas, statistics... I'm looking into this myself. To "guest" who is worried about the environmental implications of the materials, you can pretty much make one out of wood and old car parts. With some neodynium magnets and copper wire for the alternator. I'm guessing that would be less environmentally damaging than the coal pollution it would replace. Your calculations are off. Mainly your assumption that you could realistically get 650 KwH out of 10 MPH winds. The usable power in the wind goes by the cube of the wind speed. That means if you double the wind speed, you can get 8 times the power out of it. So if you cut the wind speed in half, you have to divide your usable power by 8.

Actually, there’s a graph on the brochure for the Skystream 3.7 that shows estimated monthly power you could get out of one of their machines, and at 10 MPH it looks pretty close to 240 KwH. At that rate, the return on investment is more like 29.5 years. Where I live grid power costs a lot less than that so it’s even worse. Put that $8500 into an investment and wait a few years until the price on these babies comes down.

Or, if you like to tinker with these things, building your own really is an option. This isn’t rocket science; the mechanical technology had been around for millenia, and the electronic technology has been around for decades. That otherpower.com web site shows a lot of them that have been done. Complete with pictures, formulas, statistics… I’m looking into this myself.

To “guest” who is worried about the environmental implications of the materials, you can pretty much make one out of wood and old car parts. With some neodynium magnets and copper wire for the alternator. I’m guessing that would be less environmentally damaging than the coal pollution it would replace.

]]> By: Marius http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-46507 Marius Sun, 15 Jul 2007 00:22:14 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-46507 Here's something intereseting ... I know that this solution it's suitable for deserts, because under the roof life apears. Too bad that some people don't want to see a green Sahara desert ... Here’s something intereseting …

I know that this solution it’s suitable for deserts, because under the roof life apears.

Too bad that some people don’t want to see a green Sahara desert …

]]> By: zark http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-31793 zark Mon, 04 Jun 2007 17:00:19 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-31793 Let's really get the party started! Take out a 2nd mortgage on your home and get a 20kw turbine ($50k) and a fully electric (possibly conversion) car ($30k) with a 200 mile per charge range and see how much better off you are financially for the rest of your life. Let’s really get the party started! Take out a 2nd mortgage on your home and get a 20kw turbine ($50k) and a fully electric (possibly conversion) car ($30k) with a 200 mile per charge range and see how much better off you are financially for the rest of your life.

]]> By: pf101 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-22430 pf101 Thu, 03 May 2007 06:56:00 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-22430 Great post. One of my long-term retirement ideas is to open a hotel/conference center that is self sustaining and one of the things I've had in my head is wind power. I think it's a great idea that more people should act on. I read somewhere recently (can't find the link) about mini turbines that can be mounted on top of your home and are only a few feet high. You need several of them and you don't get the same level of output but it helps with some of the noise/zoning nightmares. Once I buy I'll look into those. Even if they only 1/2 my bill, it would still be nice. Great post. One of my long-term retirement ideas is to open a hotel/conference center that is self sustaining and one of the things I’ve had in my head is wind power. I think it’s a great idea that more people should act on. I read somewhere recently (can’t find the link) about mini turbines that can be mounted on top of your home and are only a few feet high. You need several of them and you don’t get the same level of output but it helps with some of the noise/zoning nightmares. Once I buy I’ll look into those. Even if they only 1/2 my bill, it would still be nice.

]]> By: deena http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-21993 deena Tue, 01 May 2007 04:32:56 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-21993 In some areas, hybrid solar and wind power systems are combined to provide continuous power supply. This power supply is more stable. Details at http://altenergy.in/windsolarhybrid.html In some areas, hybrid solar and wind power systems are combined to provide continuous power supply. This power supply is more stable. Details at http://altenergy.in/windsolarhybrid.html

]]> By: Carl http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-20132 Carl Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:52:28 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-20132 Almost forgot. Zoning restrictions need to be taken into consideration. Also, I mostly agree with Kurt on the fact that at the moment industrial wind generation is more cost efficient (and resource efficient mind you, for all you environmentally conscious). Almost forgot. Zoning restrictions need to be taken into consideration.
Also, I mostly agree with Kurt on the fact that at the moment industrial wind generation is more cost efficient (and resource efficient mind you, for all you environmentally conscious).

]]> By: Carl http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-20129 Carl Mon, 23 Apr 2007 12:44:45 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-20129 @Daniel and et al. NOISE. Take it from a guy who works for a major electrical contractor that installs the commercial ones in the midwest. They are noisy. Live close to your neighbors? They probably aren't going to like it that you have a huge noisy prop outside their window. I should record the sound of a windfarm for you sometime. Another thing (also speaking with the knowledge of an electrical contractor and a father in the util biz), you may not be allowed to attach it back to the power grid. In fact, you most likely wont. There are various reasons as to why they won't let you do this, but I'm not going to go into them. At the very least you will need special permission from the utility fellas in your area. A lot of people mistakenly think they can just hook up a wind turbine to their house like nothing, but when the power co. realizes your sending unregulated power back into the grid, they are not going to be happy. So basically you're going to need a throw-over switch to separate your house from the grid. Did I mention these things don't put out the same amount of power all the time? So whatever is isolated from the grid is going to be relying on the wind turbine/battery backups. Basically you're going to need the switching equipment for your house and or part of your house (depending on load you can produce / ect). It's a lot more complicated than you think it is. Trust me. Other than that, I love wind energy, but when the wind stops blowing, and the sun stops shining, you're gonna need to have some alternative form of energy to keep your lights on. Ok, I've talked enough. @Daniel and et al.
NOISE. Take it from a guy who works for a major electrical contractor that installs the commercial ones in the midwest. They are noisy. Live close to your neighbors? They probably aren’t going to like it that you have a huge noisy prop outside their window. I should record the sound of a windfarm for you sometime.
Another thing (also speaking with the knowledge of an electrical contractor and a father in the util biz), you may not be allowed to attach it back to the power grid. In fact, you most likely wont. There are various reasons as to why they won’t let you do this, but I’m not going to go into them. At the very least you will need special permission from the utility fellas in your area. A lot of people mistakenly think they can just hook up a wind turbine to their house like nothing, but when the power co. realizes your sending unregulated power back into the grid, they are not going to be happy. So basically you’re going to need a throw-over switch to separate your house from the grid. Did I mention these things don’t put out the same amount of power all the time? So whatever is isolated from the grid is going to be relying on the wind turbine/battery backups. Basically you’re going to need the switching equipment for your house and or part of your house (depending on load you can produce / ect). It’s a lot more complicated than you think it is. Trust me.
Other than that, I love wind energy, but when the wind stops blowing, and the sun stops shining, you’re gonna need to have some alternative form of energy to keep your lights on.
Ok, I’ve talked enough.

]]> By: Vincent http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-20069 Vincent Mon, 23 Apr 2007 04:28:08 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-20069 I'm with Alexander! Home-made ones are darn cool. http://www.otherpower.com/bartmil.html I’m with Alexander! Home-made ones are darn cool.

http://www.otherpower.com/bartmil.html

]]> By: Trent http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-20027 Trent Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:25:00 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-20027 Wind turbines are designed for a minimum forty year lifespan, and they're built with incredible sturdiness. A local school district has been using four turbines for the last fifteen years and they've had no maintenance outside of some routine cleaning. Wind turbines are designed for a minimum forty year lifespan, and they’re built with incredible sturdiness. A local school district has been using four turbines for the last fifteen years and they’ve had no maintenance outside of some routine cleaning.

]]> By: Max http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-20026 Max Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:19:55 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-20026 This ignores maintenance costs of a wind generator. Opportunity costs and the lifespan. The generators taken to the south pole by Admiral Byrd is still OK. But the meantime before failure is not stted here. This ignores maintenance costs of a wind generator. Opportunity costs and the lifespan. The generators taken to the south pole by Admiral Byrd is still OK. But the meantime before failure is not stted here.

]]> By: Daniel http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-19950 Daniel Sun, 22 Apr 2007 11:13:29 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-19950 What about noise? I heard that wind turbines can be quite noisy? What about noise? I heard that wind turbines can be quite noisy?

]]> By: William Ryall http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-19868 William Ryall Sun, 22 Apr 2007 04:11:17 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-19868 You also have to taken into account the capital investment you are making on your home. (I.e, if you decide to sell then it's likely to add value to your home). Unfortunately in my area I am prohibited from installing such a turbine and at the local high school they had to turn their old one off as it was too noisy. (Yet they won a government award for having it, even though it can no longer be used.) You also have to taken into account the capital investment you are making on your home. (I.e, if you decide to sell then it’s likely to add value to your home).

Unfortunately in my area I am prohibited from installing such a turbine and at the local high school they had to turn their old one off as it was too noisy. (Yet they won a government award for having it, even though it can no longer be used.)

]]> By: Kurt http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-19867 Kurt Sun, 22 Apr 2007 03:59:16 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-19867 Guest, Who said anything about batteries? The grid IS the battery. Electric motors/generators are virtually maintenance free. You should take a look at the overall electric grid if you are concerned about the usage of metals. I do like the idea of distributed energy generation. It can make the grid much more reliable and improve the overall efficiency. However, small wind generation is not overall economical compared to industrial wind generation. Choose green power from your power company. Otherwise buy renewable energy credits to offset the dirty power you consume. If you happen to have the extra money, residential solar/wind are a good investment for society. Someday the price and EROI will be just right for the masses. Until then go for the lower hanging fruit. Guest,

Who said anything about batteries? The grid IS the battery. Electric motors/generators are virtually maintenance free. You should take a look at the overall electric grid if you are concerned about the usage of metals.

I do like the idea of distributed energy generation. It can make the grid much more reliable and improve the overall efficiency. However, small wind generation is not overall economical compared to industrial wind generation. Choose green power from your power company. Otherwise buy renewable energy credits to offset the dirty power you consume. If you happen to have the extra money, residential solar/wind are a good investment for society. Someday the price and EROI will be just right for the masses. Until then go for the lower hanging fruit.

]]> By: Boler http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-19866 Boler Sun, 22 Apr 2007 03:48:26 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-19866 If you consider the implications of peak oil and the coming US economic collapse, I would say that $8500 is very cheap indeed. If I owned a house I would do everything I could to make it self sufficient and low energy now while I still can relatively cheaply. If you consider the implications of peak oil and the coming US economic collapse, I would say that $8500 is very cheap indeed. If I owned a house I would do everything I could to make it self sufficient and low energy now while I still can relatively cheaply.

]]> By: Jesse http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-19846 Jesse Sun, 22 Apr 2007 02:26:49 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-19846 living in california, I don't see to many wind turbines, but I see plenty of solar panels. the sun really shines on summer days, but I've always thought wind power would be better in winter, seeing as winds sometimes reach an excess of 30 MPH, on really windy days. living in california, I don’t see to many wind turbines, but I see plenty of solar panels. the sun really shines on summer days, but I’ve always thought wind power would be better in winter, seeing as winds sometimes reach an excess of 30 MPH, on really windy days.

]]> By: Alexander http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-19818 Alexander Sat, 21 Apr 2007 23:12:11 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-19818 My home is powered by an array of 6 VAWTs that I made myself for a total price of £800. I have an average power production of around 1.2 kWh/mo (pretty much all of which I use). They stand on rigged platforms of 14ft, i.e. they need no council approval. I would advise everyone serously looking at it to do the same. These things need no electrical know-how to make. If you do not know what a VAWT is, check http://www.instructables.com/id/EVM8ECZA4VEYKVV734/ for one interpretation, or (for a somewhat more technical one) www.aerotecture.com. My home is powered by an array of 6 VAWTs that I made myself for a total price of £800. I have an average power production of around 1.2 kWh/mo (pretty much all of which I use). They stand on rigged platforms of 14ft, i.e. they need no council approval.

I would advise everyone serously looking at it to do the same. These things need no electrical know-how to make. If you do not know what a VAWT is, check http://www.instructables.com/id/EVM8ECZA4VEYKVV734/ for one interpretation, or (for a somewhat more technical one) http://www.aerotecture.com.

]]> By: Rob http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-19799 Rob Sat, 21 Apr 2007 20:41:29 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-19799 Thought about it, but the next upgrade will likely be an on-demand water heater. We have way, way, way too many 30-40 foot trees around our house for wind to be viable here in N. Illinois. Thought about it, but the next upgrade will likely be an on-demand water heater. We have way, way, way too many 30-40 foot trees around our house for wind to be viable here in N. Illinois.

]]> By: Guest http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/comment-page-1/#comment-19794 Guest Sat, 21 Apr 2007 19:52:16 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/04/21/looking-at-the-costs-and-benefits-of-installing-a-windmill-wind-turbine/#comment-19794 Is this really environmentally safe? It looks to me from the web link that this device uses a great deal of metal, copper and oil to operate. It gets environmentally unfriendlier when you factor the batteries needed, guy wires, inverters and other components you need to buy to operate. So I'm thinking if we had 1 million homes put one of these in, we'd have battery acid leaking all over everyone's yard, oil leaking out onto your lawn (instead of driveway like car) the world strip mined for copper, aluminum and other metals just so that it becomes "environmentally safe." Gotta call you out on this one Simple Is this really environmentally safe? It looks to me from the web link that this device uses a great deal of metal, copper and oil to operate. It gets environmentally unfriendlier when you factor the batteries needed, guy wires, inverters and other components you need to buy to operate.

So I’m thinking if we had 1 million homes put one of these in, we’d have battery acid leaking all over everyone’s yard, oil leaking out onto your lawn (instead of driveway like car) the world strip mined for copper, aluminum and other metals just so that it becomes “environmentally safe.”

Gotta call you out on this one Simple

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