Comments on: The “White Sheep” Syndrome: What To Do If You’re The Only Financially Sound Person In Your Family http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/ Simple, applicable personal finance advice for the modern world Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:44:30 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Sylvia http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-679593 Sylvia Sun, 31 May 2009 21:03:49 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-679593 This should be required reading for the few who make it into professional sports & suddenly are making huge amounts of money. It is so sad to see how these young people get knocked off course by sudden obscene wealth! This should be required reading for the few who make it into professional sports & suddenly are making huge amounts of money. It is so sad to see how these young people get knocked off course by sudden obscene wealth!

]]> By: Ouida Vincent http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-679362 Ouida Vincent Sun, 31 May 2009 15:28:05 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-679362 This is a great article about a very difficult subject. You don't have to flaunt your wealth for people to think that they are entitled to ask you for money. If anyone, but especially family, perceives that you have more (either because you are single or have a professional degree) you will be asked for money. My partner has no savings to speak of and significant consumer debt because she has given all of her money to one family member and her children. My partner will never be paid back. As a result we have NO joint accounts because I will not allow my labor to be used in such a way. My mother helped my brother out when he was down and out about 20 years ago. Tens of thousands of dollars to him, his wife and children. Her retirement picture is very different today than it otherwise would have been. My mother did help me with the down payment for my first home. I sold the home at a loss, but have offered to repay her. She has asked me to hold off because she may need the money down the road. Some financial planners advocate family banks for such to facilitate lending within a family where everyone contributes. It keeps the lending open and above board. Otherwise lending to family members should be strictly verboten. This is a great article about a very difficult subject. You don’t have to flaunt your wealth for people to think that they are entitled to ask you for money. If anyone, but especially family, perceives that you have more (either because you are single or have a professional degree) you will be asked for money. My partner has no savings to speak of and significant consumer debt because she has given all of her money to one family member and her children. My partner will never be paid back. As a result we have NO joint accounts because I will not allow my labor to be used in such a way. My mother helped my brother out when he was down and out about 20 years ago. Tens of thousands of dollars to him, his wife and children. Her retirement picture is very different today than it otherwise would have been. My mother did help me with the down payment for my first home. I sold the home at a loss, but have offered to repay her. She has asked me to hold off because she may need the money down the road. Some financial planners advocate family banks for such to facilitate lending within a family where everyone contributes. It keeps the lending open and above board. Otherwise lending to family members should be strictly verboten.

]]> By: steve http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-290012 steve Thu, 29 May 2008 16:53:27 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-290012 I think i'ts ok to lend to family--as long as you and your family members are on the same page and are actually are treating it like a loan. With a repayment schedule decided ahead of time, so the repayment is a monthly bill. I would also want some sense of what my sibling's overall financial situation is. Preferably would like to see their income, expenses, and budget, and how the repayment will fit into that. If you're not comfortable talking about that, maybe neither one of you should be seeking or extending a loan. For loans of $1000 or more you can use a service like Virgin Money to set up the loan and even service it. I think the problem here is in not defining your roles, then getting stiffed and having hard feelings on one side, then embarassment and alienation on the other. Best Steve I think i’ts ok to lend to family–as long as you and your family members are on the same page and are actually are treating it like a loan. With a repayment schedule decided ahead of time, so the repayment is a monthly bill.

I would also want some sense of what my sibling’s overall financial situation is. Preferably would like to see their income, expenses, and budget, and how the repayment will fit into that.

If you’re not comfortable talking about that, maybe neither one of you should be seeking or extending a loan.

For loans of $1000 or more you can use a service like Virgin Money to set up the loan and even service it.

I think the problem here is in not defining your roles, then getting stiffed and having hard feelings on one side, then embarassment and alienation on the other.

Best

Steve

]]> By: tightwadfan http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-228335 tightwadfan Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:19:25 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-228335 Trent, I'm sure everybody here knows not to do this, but it never hurts to reiterate when discussing family finance issues: Don't EVER cosign on a loan! Trent, I’m sure everybody here knows not to do this, but it never hurts to reiterate when discussing family finance issues: Don’t EVER cosign on a loan!

]]> By: tightwadfan http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-228321 tightwadfan Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:12:40 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-228321 The saying is true- if you lend money to family don't expect to ever see it again. I have seen this time and again. The most irritating is when the person who borrowed the money becomes able to support themselves again and buys more stuff without paying back the loan. My brother in law borrowed from his mother to buy a truck 8 years ago. Since then he has gotten a good job, gone on vacations, had a $10,000 wedding, bought a house, and bought a new truck, and still hasn't finished paying back his mom. We considered giving the money we were giving him for his wedding present directly to his mom but knew it wasn't appropriate and would just make bad blood between us. Would've been nice if we could have... The saying is true- if you lend money to family don’t expect to ever see it again. I have seen this time and again. The most irritating is when the person who borrowed the money becomes able to support themselves again and buys more stuff without paying back the loan. My brother in law borrowed from his mother to buy a truck 8 years ago. Since then he has gotten a good job, gone on vacations, had a $10,000 wedding, bought a house, and bought a new truck, and still hasn’t finished paying back his mom. We considered giving the money we were giving him for his wedding present directly to his mom but knew it wasn’t appropriate and would just make bad blood between us. Would’ve been nice if we could have…

]]> By: Margaret http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-228307 Margaret Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:00:21 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-228307 Julia -- if you are seriously concerned that you nephew would be neglected, then you or your mom (whoever is willing), should apply to become guardian of the child. I think if you did, then you would also be entitled to any family allowance or child tax benefit type payments for that child. That would help offset your expenses, and if you were the legal guardian, you would not have to let your sister take the child back whenever she gets the notion that it might be fun to be a mom again. You need some legal advice on doing that, though. Julia — if you are seriously concerned that you nephew would be neglected, then you or your mom (whoever is willing), should apply to become guardian of the child. I think if you did, then you would also be entitled to any family allowance or child tax benefit type payments for that child. That would help offset your expenses, and if you were the legal guardian, you would not have to let your sister take the child back whenever she gets the notion that it might be fun to be a mom again. You need some legal advice on doing that, though.

]]> By: Julia http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-126961 Julia Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:49:38 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-126961 I wish I've read this entry sooner. I'm also the "white sheep" of the family, except I'm the eldest and I only have one sibling. My sister is an "indirect mooch". She used to live with me mother, where she had free childcare for her son and rent. She makes a good living but she was always behind on her share of grocery money and expenses for my nephew. Now, she's moved out of the house, but she left her son behind. She visits her son every once in a while but hardly gives any financial support. We can't reach my nephew's father for any help. Somebody suggested that we leave my nephew with my sister but we're afraid he would be neglected(he's only 5). Any advice? I wish I’ve read this entry sooner. I’m also the “white sheep” of the family, except I’m the eldest and I only have one sibling. My sister is an “indirect mooch”. She used to live with me mother, where she had free childcare for her son and rent. She makes a good living but she was always behind on her share of grocery money and expenses for my nephew. Now, she’s moved out of the house, but she left her son behind. She visits her son every once in a while but hardly gives any financial support. We can’t reach my nephew’s father for any help. Somebody suggested that we leave my nephew with my sister but we’re afraid he would be neglected(he’s only 5). Any advice?

]]> By: reulte http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-121987 reulte Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:54:53 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-121987 A good reason for living frugally . . . no one expects you to have money to spare. A good reason for living frugally . . . no one expects you to have money to spare.

]]> By: DavidM http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-30637 DavidM Thu, 31 May 2007 12:15:29 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30637 Thanks to Debbie for her comments. I think the method you describe is probably the best scenario if you are willing to lend. I don't want to harbor bad feelings because of money. Life is too short. Thanks to Debbie for her comments. I think the method you describe is probably the best scenario if you are willing to lend. I don’t want to harbor bad feelings because of money. Life is too short.

]]> By: Steve http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-30548 Steve Thu, 31 May 2007 02:07:59 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30548 I have had several good laughs from the comments! And I have learned quite a bit too. Just what I needed. I am going through a transition period of learning not to hand out money... or getting my money back without feeling guilty for taking it back. I have put my plans on hold at several times in order to help my family and/or friends. I have gone through really tough times and still I shared the little I had during those times. Now I see that my only way forward is to let to not do handouts. At first, I thought/felt that I was showing that I cared/loved the person - which I truly did. How do I tell somebody to get their act together? Don't buy that shirt just coz it is 95% off if you haven't paid your rent yet? etc etc etc. Thanks, Trent. Thou hast changed my life since I "met" you! (Well, your blog!) I have had several good laughs from the comments! And I have learned quite a bit too. Just what I needed. I am going through a transition period of learning not to hand out money… or getting my money back without feeling guilty for taking it back. I have put my plans on hold at several times in order to help my family and/or friends. I have gone through really tough times and still I shared the little I had during those times. Now I see that my only way forward is to let to not do handouts. At first, I thought/felt that I was showing that I cared/loved the person – which I truly did. How do I tell somebody to get their act together? Don’t buy that shirt just coz it is 95% off if you haven’t paid your rent yet? etc etc etc. Thanks, Trent. Thou hast changed my life since I “met” you! (Well, your blog!)

]]> By: Ronduck http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-30503 Ronduck Wed, 30 May 2007 22:58:19 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30503 I often read that money is the biggest cause of divorce, but this article proves that its actually personal behavior. Keeping your word, living within your means and living up to your responsibilities in life are what's important. Blaming "money" is just an excuse not admit what is actually causing the problem. I often read that money is the biggest cause of divorce, but this article proves that its actually personal behavior. Keeping your word, living within your means and living up to your responsibilities in life are what’s important. Blaming “money” is just an excuse not admit what is actually causing the problem.

]]> By: Debbie http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-30488 Debbie Wed, 30 May 2007 21:48:55 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30488 I just realized that I make more money than both of my siblings combined, too. But that's because one is between jobs right now and the other is ten years younger than me. My policy is to loan money (if I have it, if it seems like a good reason, and if I can afford to lose it). Then I never loan any more money to that person until that first loan is paid off. I made that rule very clear at the beginning. This policy gives me all the advantages of saying no without having to say no. "Yes, I will be happy to loan you that money, as soon as you pay off your other loan." And DavidM, this plan might work for you, too. It would show that you are not playing favorites; the same policy would lead to different consequences for each sibling because of their own actions, not yours. You never have more than one loan out per sibling. As a result of this policy, one of my siblings has not asked me for a loan in over a year, another in over a decade. They have managed somehow anyway. I do give gifts sometimes, but not based on what people are asking for. I like to subsidize once-in-a-lifetime family opportunities (like when we all went to Disney World) because it's worth the money to me to be able to have everyone in the family together, even if one of them is poor right now. I also like to help when a small amount of money can make a big difference. Like if only you could scrape together the first and last month's rent for a new place you could move someplace that's cheaper and close enough to work that you won't need your car--that's when I hope I have the bucks to be able to make that happen, even for a sibling who still has a loan out. I've just this year decided to add a loan-and-gift fund to my budget for just this sort of thing. I'll put any loan repayments in there (actually, I do still think that both loans will be repaid one day) and may also add a tiny amount myself each month, like $20, that I won't miss. I just realized that I make more money than both of my siblings combined, too. But that’s because one is between jobs right now and the other is ten years younger than me.

My policy is to loan money (if I have it, if it seems like a good reason, and if I can afford to lose it). Then I never loan any more money to that person until that first loan is paid off. I made that rule very clear at the beginning.

This policy gives me all the advantages of saying no without having to say no. “Yes, I will be happy to loan you that money, as soon as you pay off your other loan.”

And DavidM, this plan might work for you, too. It would show that you are not playing favorites; the same policy would lead to different consequences for each sibling because of their own actions, not yours. You never have more than one loan out per sibling.

As a result of this policy, one of my siblings has not asked me for a loan in over a year, another in over a decade. They have managed somehow anyway.

I do give gifts sometimes, but not based on what people are asking for. I like to subsidize once-in-a-lifetime family opportunities (like when we all went to Disney World) because it’s worth the money to me to be able to have everyone in the family together, even if one of them is poor right now.

I also like to help when a small amount of money can make a big difference. Like if only you could scrape together the first and last month’s rent for a new place you could move someplace that’s cheaper and close enough to work that you won’t need your car–that’s when I hope I have the bucks to be able to make that happen, even for a sibling who still has a loan out.

I’ve just this year decided to add a loan-and-gift fund to my budget for just this sort of thing. I’ll put any loan repayments in there (actually, I do still think that both loans will be repaid one day) and may also add a tiny amount myself each month, like $20, that I won’t miss.

]]> By: cami http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-30398 cami Wed, 30 May 2007 15:22:11 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30398 I like this post, but I think that you have to be careful not to imply that because Maggie makes more than her siblings, she is more financial sound. There are plenty of articles out there that talk about six-figure family with a ton of credit card debt who are living paycheck to paycheck. I've seen this situation play out (the one making less money is more responsible) with my friends and family a couple of times. I have on occasion lent money, but I only lend what I feel comfortable never seeing again; if I see it great, if not I consider it a gift. I would never let anyone in my family go hungry, especially if they had kids, but above that I think that people need to tough it out and get their acts together. I like this post, but I think that you have to be careful not to imply that because Maggie makes more than her siblings, she is more financial sound. There are plenty of articles out there that talk about six-figure family with a ton of credit card debt who are living paycheck to paycheck. I’ve seen this situation play out (the one making less money is more responsible) with my friends and family a couple of times.

I have on occasion lent money, but I only lend what I feel comfortable never seeing again; if I see it great, if not I consider it a gift. I would never let anyone in my family go hungry, especially if they had kids, but above that I think that people need to tough it out and get their acts together.

]]> By: Chris http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-30380 Chris Wed, 30 May 2007 13:36:01 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30380 I am reading a lot of comments here that are assuming the worst of the "white" sheep. I am guessing that these comments are coming from people who NEVER co-signed a loan for their sibling and then had to start making payments because the sibling decided the loan payment was not top priority, and then to top things off, didn't even acknowledge the fact that payments were made for them, let alone make any restitutions. I bet that many of these comments may be coming from folks who DON'T have a family member that consistently gets into trouble with money and then expects to be bailed out. Or maybe some of those comments are coming from the financially troubled. I didn't see anywhere in Trent's post where he said that Maggie felt superior and flaunted her massive riches. In fact I think he said that Maggie tried to stay involved with her family so that she could tell when her help was needed, so that she could step in an lend a hand. I never got the impression that she was just dropping duckets everywhere, I got the impression that by staying connected to her family, she knew when one of her nieces needed some help with college, or helping out with a down payment. I get the feeling from this story, that these siblings would have no issue with their son or daughter getting a car for their 16th. My advice is never lend money to your family, just give it to them if you can and if it makes sense to. If you give money to them every time they ask, the requests will come easier for them as time goes by. Also, giving money away is not going to miraculously make them see the error of their ways, so I am sure they'll get themselves into trouble again. That's called being an enabler. I am reading a lot of comments here that are assuming the worst of the “white” sheep. I am guessing that these comments are coming from people who NEVER co-signed a loan for their sibling and then had to start making payments because the sibling decided the loan payment was not top priority, and then to top things off, didn’t even acknowledge the fact that payments were made for them, let alone make any restitutions. I bet that many of these comments may be coming from folks who DON’T have a family member that consistently gets into trouble with money and then expects to be bailed out. Or maybe some of those comments are coming from the financially troubled.

I didn’t see anywhere in Trent’s post where he said that Maggie felt superior and flaunted her massive riches. In fact I think he said that Maggie tried to stay involved with her family so that she could tell when her help was needed, so that she could step in an lend a hand. I never got the impression that she was just dropping duckets everywhere, I got the impression that by staying connected to her family, she knew when one of her nieces needed some help with college, or helping out with a down payment. I get the feeling from this story, that these siblings would have no issue with their son or daughter getting a car for their 16th.

My advice is never lend money to your family, just give it to them if you can and if it makes sense to. If you give money to them every time they ask, the requests will come easier for them as time goes by. Also, giving money away is not going to miraculously make them see the error of their ways, so I am sure they’ll get themselves into trouble again. That’s called being an enabler.

]]> By: DavidM http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-30367 DavidM Wed, 30 May 2007 12:49:04 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30367 I like Ursula's take on it. I have one brother & he would gladly drain me dry, while my one sister would be desperate before asking me for a penny. She has borrowed money from me once or twice and did not tarry either time in repaying. The brother on the other hand has borrowed a few thousand dollars from me and has repaid a few hundred. My sister is obviously the one Im more inclined to help. I hate to play the favorites card, but it is more of a trust issue. And it is sad, but I have to ask my sister to never speak to the brother about money I loan her, lest he thinks the "Bank of David" is open for business. And my brother has NEVER asked my sister for money. One of the reasons I think my brother came to me so often is I was single at the time. Evidently some people think if you are single, you must not have any bills whatsoever and are sitting on piles of cash. I like Ursula’s take on it. I have one brother & he would gladly drain me dry, while my one sister would be desperate before asking me for a penny. She has borrowed money from me once or twice and did not tarry either time in repaying. The brother on the other hand has borrowed a few thousand dollars from me and has repaid a few hundred. My sister is obviously the one Im more inclined to help. I hate to play the favorites card, but it is more of a trust issue. And it is sad, but I have to ask my sister to never speak to the brother about money I loan her, lest he thinks the “Bank of David” is open for business. And my brother has NEVER asked my sister for money.

One of the reasons I think my brother came to me so often is I was single at the time. Evidently some people think if you are single, you must not have any bills whatsoever and are sitting on piles of cash.

]]> By: Jack http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-30364 Jack Wed, 30 May 2007 12:36:28 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30364 "If they ask for financial assistance, just give a very clear “no” and move on with life. If you don’t, they will consistently drag you down." Wow, glad I'm not your brother. Seriously, if you have a sibling that has a history of being irresponsible, a bum or never pays anyone back, don't lend them money. But my sisters are wonderful, proud people and if any one of them came to me and asked me for money I would do it in a heartbeat because just by them asking I would know they were in need. Sorry, I would not turn my back on my family. “If they ask for financial assistance, just give a very clear “no” and move on with life. If you don’t, they will consistently drag you down.”

Wow, glad I’m not your brother. Seriously, if you have a sibling that has a history of being irresponsible, a bum or never pays anyone back, don’t lend them money. But my sisters are wonderful, proud people and if any one of them came to me and asked me for money I would do it in a heartbeat because just by them asking I would know they were in need. Sorry, I would not turn my back on my family.

]]> By: plonkee http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-30361 plonkee Wed, 30 May 2007 12:05:12 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30361 I don't think that I would lend my siblings money. But on the other hand, you never know. I'm sure its true that if you start, you can't stop. On a note not really addressed in this post (p'raps Trent and his friend are too nice), at some point people have to take responsibility for their own lives. And to me, part of that means that if you lend someone money, that doesn't give you a say in how they run their lives. I don’t think that I would lend my siblings money. But on the other hand, you never know. I’m sure its true that if you start, you can’t stop.

On a note not really addressed in this post (p’raps Trent and his friend are too nice), at some point people have to take responsibility for their own lives. And to me, part of that means that if you lend someone money, that doesn’t give you a say in how they run their lives.

]]> By: Rob in Madrid http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-30308 Rob in Madrid Wed, 30 May 2007 06:46:13 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30308 The problem is once you start giving money it's very very hard to stop. My wife's parents made that mistake with her younger brother. It all started with the best of intentions, giving them the older car when they stupidly wanted to lease a car. Then it was letting them live with them cost free (no boundaries were set up regarding rent utilities etc) after graduating from college then after 4 years of living at home they moved out but of course they had no money so they were given a down payment on a house than he quit his job to start one of 4 business that didn't work out of course they keep borrowing (against the parents line of credit) and have never made a payment. 3 years latter they sold the house to pay off debt. I suggested they pay her parents off first and then declare bankruptcy but they didn't. Ofcourse that didn't stop the handouts. It only ended when her parents finally ran out of money. Suddenly he found a "job" that paid a wage. The difference with my Dad is compelling. He's always been there for each of the kids over the years but there have been clear boundaries set up. He's willing to give you loan (gift?). But it was very very clear it was a one time thing and don't bother coming back. He once loaned us 5000 dollars (pocket change to the money above) but I also provided him with a plan of how and when I would pay him back including all service charges. When I sent him the cheque I keep hoping he wouldn't cash it but he did and that's ok that was our agreement. Lest you think that parents are being way too soft the hardest thing is to say no to your children. Surprisingly considering how much money has been given out on my wife's side it hasn't caused a family rift. I think part of it is good records are being kept and it will come out of the inheritance if there's anything left that is. And it isn't worth getting upset about. The problem is once you start giving money it’s very very hard to stop. My wife’s parents made that mistake with her younger brother. It all started with the best of intentions, giving them the older car when they stupidly wanted to lease a car. Then it was letting them live with them cost free (no boundaries were set up regarding rent utilities etc) after graduating from college then after 4 years of living at home they moved out but of course they had no money so they were given a down payment on a house than he quit his job to start one of 4 business that didn’t work out of course they keep borrowing (against the parents line of credit) and have never made a payment. 3 years latter they sold the house to pay off debt. I suggested they pay her parents off first and then declare bankruptcy but they didn’t. Ofcourse that didn’t stop the handouts. It only ended when her parents finally ran out of money. Suddenly he found a “job” that paid a wage.

The difference with my Dad is compelling. He’s always been there for each of the kids over the years but there have been clear boundaries set up. He’s willing to give you loan (gift?). But it was very very clear it was a one time thing and don’t bother coming back. He once loaned us 5000 dollars (pocket change to the money above) but I also provided him with a plan of how and when I would pay him back including all service charges. When I sent him the cheque I keep hoping he wouldn’t cash it but he did and that’s ok that was our agreement.

Lest you think that parents are being way too soft the hardest thing is to say no to your children. Surprisingly considering how much money has been given out on my wife’s side it hasn’t caused a family rift. I think part of it is good records are being kept and it will come out of the inheritance if there’s anything left that is. And it isn’t worth getting upset about.

]]> By: DE http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-30282 DE Wed, 30 May 2007 03:40:10 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30282 I think some of the comments assume the scenario to be one where you are extremely well off while the rest of the family isn't. However, there's a difference between "financially sound" and "rich" and I suspect the article addresses the former. I can relate to this article because I am sure that while I will never be rich, I would nonetheless experience the problem of dealing with family members who are in fact financially disorganized just by becoming finally SOUND. One commentor asks what Maggie might be doing to encourage family members asking for money as if she might be flaunting a Mercedes Benz or something. But, in my case, all I would have to do to entice family loan requests would be to make the horrible mistake of renting a nice apartment or something. The conflict of loaning (or gifting) out money all the time to pay for every parking ticket my brother gets, or being the bad guy, makes the goal of being financially sound almost more trouble than its worth. Almost anyway. ;) Great article! I think some of the comments assume the scenario to be one where you are extremely well off while the rest of the family isn’t. However, there’s a difference between “financially sound” and “rich” and I suspect the article addresses the former. I can relate to this article because I am sure that while I will never be rich, I would nonetheless experience the problem of dealing with family members who are in fact financially disorganized just by becoming finally SOUND. One commentor asks what Maggie might be doing to encourage family members asking for money as if she might be flaunting a Mercedes Benz or something. But, in my case, all I would have to do to entice family loan requests would be to make the horrible mistake of renting a nice apartment or something. The conflict of loaning (or gifting) out money all the time to pay for every parking ticket my brother gets, or being the bad guy, makes the goal of being financially sound almost more trouble than its worth. Almost anyway. ;)

Great article!

]]> By: Ursula http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/comment-page-1/#comment-30281 Ursula Wed, 30 May 2007 03:30:30 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30281 I agree 100% with Ted regarding checking with the parents first! I am "auntie" to my best friend's 7 children -- the oldest is graduating high school next month and I really want to give him $500 as a graduation present. To me, this $500 is just a small dent out of my savings account, but I know it would mean the world to my nephew. On the other hand, it IS a large gift, so I checked with his mom first to make sure it was OK with her and the dad before I gave him such a gift. These same people, the dad makes about 2/3 of what I do per year, but he supports NINE people whereas I only support one (myself). Because I love them all so much (they are like family to me), I've offered on occasion to help them out when they need it. They've never taken a dime from me. But because of their unwillingness to look at me as a wallet, I will continue to be ready willing and able to help them should they ever need that. My own flesh and blood on the other hand, specifically my mother, has a really sick entitlement attitude that I actually OWE it to her to give her several hundred dollars a month, just because she wishes it so! This woman has declared BK and had to sell her house and buy a trailer because she can't manage her finances. And now she has 5 figures of debt hanging over her head. And she has the nerve to expect me to fork over my hard-earned cash to her. I've told her "NO WAY" on more than one occasion. It makes me feel sick and used to know that the only thing my mother sees me as good for is for a financial hand-out. (Ah but I think I'm digressing and ranting now!) Anyway ... good advice, Trent. Never lend money to family! Especially if they think they're entitled to it! You'll never be able to kick them off the teat once you let them latch on! I agree 100% with Ted regarding checking with the parents first! I am “auntie” to my best friend’s 7 children — the oldest is graduating high school next month and I really want to give him $500 as a graduation present. To me, this $500 is just a small dent out of my savings account, but I know it would mean the world to my nephew. On the other hand, it IS a large gift, so I checked with his mom first to make sure it was OK with her and the dad before I gave him such a gift.

These same people, the dad makes about 2/3 of what I do per year, but he supports NINE people whereas I only support one (myself). Because I love them all so much (they are like family to me), I’ve offered on occasion to help them out when they need it. They’ve never taken a dime from me. But because of their unwillingness to look at me as a wallet, I will continue to be ready willing and able to help them should they ever need that.

My own flesh and blood on the other hand, specifically my mother, has a really sick entitlement attitude that I actually OWE it to her to give her several hundred dollars a month, just because she wishes it so! This woman has declared BK and had to sell her house and buy a trailer because she can’t manage her finances. And now she has 5 figures of debt hanging over her head. And she has the nerve to expect me to fork over my hard-earned cash to her. I’ve told her “NO WAY” on more than one occasion. It makes me feel sick and used to know that the only thing my mother sees me as good for is for a financial hand-out. (Ah but I think I’m digressing and ranting now!)

Anyway … good advice, Trent. Never lend money to family! Especially if they think they’re entitled to it! You’ll never be able to kick them off the teat once you let them latch on!

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