Comments on: The “White Sheep” Syndrome: What To Do If You’re The Only Financially Sound Person In Your Family http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/ Financial talk for the rest of us Sat, 16 Feb 2013 01:14:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.5.1 By: Lou http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-913125 Lou Mon, 31 May 2010 16:37:59 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-913125 No one has mentioned illness as an issue where lending/giving might be an issue.I have a general policy of never lending to family because my father & his brother actually went to court 15 years after a “loan” that was never repaid. I’m not going there.

However, a sibling had a child with (what looked then like) a treatable drug problem and the teen’s first in-patient stay used up the medical insurance available for such treatment w/o fixing the problem. When a second in-patient stay was advised, I gave my sib the cash. I regret that I did not pay the medical facility directly so i could take the tax break, but thatshort-sightedness is my only regret.

Subsequently, job loss left the family without any health insurance and I paid for a transitional policy.

It took about 10% of my retirement savings and didn’t cure my niece, but I did what I could in a heartbreaking situation and know that I regret the lost money less than I would have regretted the lost opportunity to save a life. That it didn’t work out the way we all hoped is irrelevant and so is the money.

]]> By: alsowhitesheep http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-913003 alsowhitesheep Sun, 30 May 2010 13:26:42 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-913003 To TedV and others above – obv stability is a mindset – your bitterness oozes through the screen about your “rich” sister. Agreed, big gifts should be cleared with parents but boy, can I see from here how irritated you are that she is stable. Why not have a conversation with her about how she got there, and be honest and giving about what has worked for you etc?

There are family loans because the person thinks you are the money fairy and then there are loans because all hell has broken loose in someone’s life. If they are family, you already knew what side of that divide they were on years ago!

]]> By: deRuiter http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-913002 deRuiter Sun, 30 May 2010 11:10:27 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-913002 The reasons mentioned are exactly why it is a moral crime for Congress to extend unemployment benefits to 99 weeks. As a landlord with many low income tenants, it is amazing how quickly they find a job a week or two before the benefits run out. More than one has told me cheerfully, “Why I get only $20./ less per week with unemployment, and I don’t have communting costs, don’t have to spend my day doing mindless stuff for a boss. Why should I get a job until the benefits run out?” And they are right! The more you pay people not to work, the more they will stay on the dole. Banks are for lending. if a bank won’t lend money to a person, it’s because they think that borrower won’t pay back the money. Why should you then offer to cosign and get stuck for the money? Why lend your hard earned cash to a person who will not pay back what he borrowed? Life is a series, daily, of financial decisions, some people make bad ones and some good. A good decision maker should not feel guilty because they made good decisions. “Should I buy a Starbucks for $5. every day or put $25. a week in a savings account?”, Should I drop out of school and hang on the street corner or graduate?”, should I buy a used car and bank the car payments or buy a new car I can’t afford?

]]> By: Rhonda http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-912982 Rhonda Sun, 30 May 2010 02:22:32 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-912982 Alot of great conversation.

I would never ask for money from my sibling, nor can I ever imagine him asking from me. But if he did it would be for a good reason, and I would try my best to help. And, if for some reason, I didn’t think it was for a good reason I would decline.

I was taught as a child – never, never lend money unless it is money you can throw away. Good advice in my books.

I have occasionally ran into employees at work who have felt taken advantage of for lending of money. So my piece of advise to myself is: don’t risk the relationship to lend money. Just say no.

I would be very upset if a relative offered a car or other ‘large’ amount of money to my underage child without discussing with me first. Actually…even to my college aged child. Huge,huge,huge dent in our relationship there.

That is probably not what happened in this scenario, or course…

Thanks!
Rhonda

]]> By: Kelli http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-912972 Kelli Sat, 29 May 2010 21:41:04 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-912972 I imagine this to be more difficult with parents. My parents are now retired and are not out-of-this-world spenders but let’s say are unafraid of debt. I have a fear of this happening to me one day, and how does one say no to the people who raised you and gave you the opportunities to get to the place you are in? Anyway, hopefully I will remember this article if it ever gets to that.

]]> By: Pottery Lover http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-912158 Pottery Lover Sun, 23 May 2010 14:20:01 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-912158 I just found this post! Interesting. What I have discovered “being the white sheep” in the family, is that my kids (and other relatives) don’t have a money problem–there is always plenty of money for the things they want–it is a spending problem.
Giving them money doesn’t help with their spending problem. I have learned the hard way that loaning money to family members is not a loan–it is a gift! So, we don’t loan money!
If you want a loan, go to a bank or finance company. If I feel like giving a gift, then I give it with no expectations of being repaid.

We are the white sheep in the family because we control our “outgo,” not because we have unlimited income. If I tried to continue to rescue my kids and other relatives, we would be as cash-poor as them. We learned to live within our means many years ago and just kind of expected everyone else learned the same lesson from being raised with limited income. At first we thought they just needed a helping hand and helped. Now they are worse off for our help as they didn’t learn how to survive on their own.
It is painful watching them flounder, but we decided we all have lessons to learn–we learned ours about not loaning money and hope they will learn theirs–stop spending on things that don’t keep you alive when times are tough!

]]> By: Sylvia http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-679593 Sylvia Sun, 31 May 2009 21:03:49 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-679593 This should be required reading for the few who make it into professional sports & suddenly are making huge amounts of money. It is so sad to see how these young people get knocked off course by sudden obscene wealth!

]]> By: Ouida Vincent http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-679362 Ouida Vincent Sun, 31 May 2009 15:28:05 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-679362 This is a great article about a very difficult subject. You don’t have to flaunt your wealth for people to think that they are entitled to ask you for money. If anyone, but especially family, perceives that you have more (either because you are single or have a professional degree) you will be asked for money. My partner has no savings to speak of and significant consumer debt because she has given all of her money to one family member and her children. My partner will never be paid back. As a result we have NO joint accounts because I will not allow my labor to be used in such a way. My mother helped my brother out when he was down and out about 20 years ago. Tens of thousands of dollars to him, his wife and children. Her retirement picture is very different today than it otherwise would have been. My mother did help me with the down payment for my first home. I sold the home at a loss, but have offered to repay her. She has asked me to hold off because she may need the money down the road. Some financial planners advocate family banks for such to facilitate lending within a family where everyone contributes. It keeps the lending open and above board. Otherwise lending to family members should be strictly verboten.

]]> By: steve http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-290012 steve Thu, 29 May 2008 16:53:27 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-290012 I think i’ts ok to lend to family–as long as you and your family members are on the same page and are actually are treating it like a loan. With a repayment schedule decided ahead of time, so the repayment is a monthly bill.

I would also want some sense of what my sibling’s overall financial situation is. Preferably would like to see their income, expenses, and budget, and how the repayment will fit into that.

If you’re not comfortable talking about that, maybe neither one of you should be seeking or extending a loan.

For loans of $1000 or more you can use a service like Virgin Money to set up the loan and even service it.

I think the problem here is in not defining your roles, then getting stiffed and having hard feelings on one side, then embarassment and alienation on the other.

Best

Steve

]]> By: tightwadfan http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-228335 tightwadfan Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:19:25 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-228335 Trent, I’m sure everybody here knows not to do this, but it never hurts to reiterate when discussing family finance issues: Don’t EVER cosign on a loan!

]]> By: tightwadfan http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-228321 tightwadfan Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:12:40 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-228321 The saying is true- if you lend money to family don’t expect to ever see it again. I have seen this time and again. The most irritating is when the person who borrowed the money becomes able to support themselves again and buys more stuff without paying back the loan. My brother in law borrowed from his mother to buy a truck 8 years ago. Since then he has gotten a good job, gone on vacations, had a $10,000 wedding, bought a house, and bought a new truck, and still hasn’t finished paying back his mom. We considered giving the money we were giving him for his wedding present directly to his mom but knew it wasn’t appropriate and would just make bad blood between us. Would’ve been nice if we could have…

]]> By: Margaret http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-228307 Margaret Mon, 07 Apr 2008 16:00:21 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-228307 Julia — if you are seriously concerned that you nephew would be neglected, then you or your mom (whoever is willing), should apply to become guardian of the child. I think if you did, then you would also be entitled to any family allowance or child tax benefit type payments for that child. That would help offset your expenses, and if you were the legal guardian, you would not have to let your sister take the child back whenever she gets the notion that it might be fun to be a mom again. You need some legal advice on doing that, though.

]]> By: Julia http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-126961 Julia Fri, 07 Dec 2007 07:49:38 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-126961 I wish I’ve read this entry sooner. I’m also the “white sheep” of the family, except I’m the eldest and I only have one sibling. My sister is an “indirect mooch”. She used to live with me mother, where she had free childcare for her son and rent. She makes a good living but she was always behind on her share of grocery money and expenses for my nephew. Now, she’s moved out of the house, but she left her son behind. She visits her son every once in a while but hardly gives any financial support. We can’t reach my nephew’s father for any help. Somebody suggested that we leave my nephew with my sister but we’re afraid he would be neglected(he’s only 5). Any advice?

]]> By: reulte http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-121987 reulte Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:54:53 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-121987 A good reason for living frugally . . . no one expects you to have money to spare.

]]> By: DavidM http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30637 DavidM Thu, 31 May 2007 12:15:29 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30637 Thanks to Debbie for her comments. I think the method you describe is probably the best scenario if you are willing to lend. I don’t want to harbor bad feelings because of money. Life is too short.

]]> By: Steve http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30548 Steve Thu, 31 May 2007 02:07:59 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30548 I have had several good laughs from the comments! And I have learned quite a bit too. Just what I needed. I am going through a transition period of learning not to hand out money… or getting my money back without feeling guilty for taking it back. I have put my plans on hold at several times in order to help my family and/or friends. I have gone through really tough times and still I shared the little I had during those times. Now I see that my only way forward is to let to not do handouts. At first, I thought/felt that I was showing that I cared/loved the person – which I truly did. How do I tell somebody to get their act together? Don’t buy that shirt just coz it is 95% off if you haven’t paid your rent yet? etc etc etc. Thanks, Trent. Thou hast changed my life since I “met” you! (Well, your blog!)

]]> By: Ronduck http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30503 Ronduck Wed, 30 May 2007 22:58:19 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30503 I often read that money is the biggest cause of divorce, but this article proves that its actually personal behavior. Keeping your word, living within your means and living up to your responsibilities in life are what’s important. Blaming “money” is just an excuse not admit what is actually causing the problem.

]]> By: Debbie http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30488 Debbie Wed, 30 May 2007 21:48:55 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30488 I just realized that I make more money than both of my siblings combined, too. But that’s because one is between jobs right now and the other is ten years younger than me.

My policy is to loan money (if I have it, if it seems like a good reason, and if I can afford to lose it). Then I never loan any more money to that person until that first loan is paid off. I made that rule very clear at the beginning.

This policy gives me all the advantages of saying no without having to say no. “Yes, I will be happy to loan you that money, as soon as you pay off your other loan.”

And DavidM, this plan might work for you, too. It would show that you are not playing favorites; the same policy would lead to different consequences for each sibling because of their own actions, not yours. You never have more than one loan out per sibling.

As a result of this policy, one of my siblings has not asked me for a loan in over a year, another in over a decade. They have managed somehow anyway.

I do give gifts sometimes, but not based on what people are asking for. I like to subsidize once-in-a-lifetime family opportunities (like when we all went to Disney World) because it’s worth the money to me to be able to have everyone in the family together, even if one of them is poor right now.

I also like to help when a small amount of money can make a big difference. Like if only you could scrape together the first and last month’s rent for a new place you could move someplace that’s cheaper and close enough to work that you won’t need your car–that’s when I hope I have the bucks to be able to make that happen, even for a sibling who still has a loan out.

I’ve just this year decided to add a loan-and-gift fund to my budget for just this sort of thing. I’ll put any loan repayments in there (actually, I do still think that both loans will be repaid one day) and may also add a tiny amount myself each month, like $20, that I won’t miss.

]]> By: cami http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30398 cami Wed, 30 May 2007 15:22:11 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30398 I like this post, but I think that you have to be careful not to imply that because Maggie makes more than her siblings, she is more financial sound. There are plenty of articles out there that talk about six-figure family with a ton of credit card debt who are living paycheck to paycheck. I’ve seen this situation play out (the one making less money is more responsible) with my friends and family a couple of times.

I have on occasion lent money, but I only lend what I feel comfortable never seeing again; if I see it great, if not I consider it a gift. I would never let anyone in my family go hungry, especially if they had kids, but above that I think that people need to tough it out and get their acts together.

]]> By: Chris http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30380 Chris Wed, 30 May 2007 13:36:01 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/05/29/the-white-sheep-syndrome-what-to-do-if-youre-the-only-financially-sound-person-in-your-family/#comment-30380 I am reading a lot of comments here that are assuming the worst of the “white” sheep. I am guessing that these comments are coming from people who NEVER co-signed a loan for their sibling and then had to start making payments because the sibling decided the loan payment was not top priority, and then to top things off, didn’t even acknowledge the fact that payments were made for them, let alone make any restitutions. I bet that many of these comments may be coming from folks who DON’T have a family member that consistently gets into trouble with money and then expects to be bailed out. Or maybe some of those comments are coming from the financially troubled.

I didn’t see anywhere in Trent’s post where he said that Maggie felt superior and flaunted her massive riches. In fact I think he said that Maggie tried to stay involved with her family so that she could tell when her help was needed, so that she could step in an lend a hand. I never got the impression that she was just dropping duckets everywhere, I got the impression that by staying connected to her family, she knew when one of her nieces needed some help with college, or helping out with a down payment. I get the feeling from this story, that these siblings would have no issue with their son or daughter getting a car for their 16th.

My advice is never lend money to your family, just give it to them if you can and if it makes sense to. If you give money to them every time they ask, the requests will come easier for them as time goes by. Also, giving money away is not going to miraculously make them see the error of their ways, so I am sure they’ll get themselves into trouble again. That’s called being an enabler.

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