Great tips. I too get frustrated with “Minimum Wage” because he or she assumes failure before even trying, but some issues he raises are valid.

I agree with all the tips except maybe the 1st. I’d say move to a small affordable city. A certain amount urban density can beget opportunity…

My husband and I raised our daughter on 20k a year or less for nearly the entirety of our marriage (19 years this December). We own our home, always had a car, and have excellent credit while many we knew blew more money every month than we brought in. How? Budgeting, mostly, and very few money-sucking habits, like drinking and smoking. We never ate at a soup kitchen, never collected welfare (we did, however, get WIC for a month when our daughter was an infant, but using it embarrassed me so much we stopped), and we never expected anyone to take care of us but ourselves.

Did we live well? I suppose that depends on your definition. Everything we have we own free and clear - although my husband found a MUCH better paying job that essentially doubled our income we still can’t fathom making payments on a large purchase, like a car. We bought fixer uppers and fixed them. Ourselves. Sweat equity is a great thing and our home is worth about three times what we owe on it. I learned how to cook on the cheap, feeding a family of three on less than $50 every 2-week pay period, and I did it for more than a decade. Two words - Chicken Hindquarters. One of us has always stayed home to be a parent, and that cuts a lot of expenses right there. Homecooked meals and no daycare costs add up fast. When our daughter was little I sewed a lot of her clothes. When friends were down and out, we took them in. I can’t tell you how many folks have slept on our couch and most never gave us a dime.

It’s all in how you look at it. Can you drive a new car and live in a new house while making $7 or $8 an hour? Maybe vacation on the coast? Probably not. But you can live cheaply, and live well, with less expense. We even have Dish Network and DSL internet. It’s all priorities and budgeting.

Sorry, Trent, I can’t imagine taking my family to a soup kitchen or going on the dole. Ever. We’d get additional jobs long before it got to that point. Prioritize and Budget. That’s all you have to do.

Sometimes it’s hard to reconcile your political beliefs and using an entitlement system you’re against. It took me a long time to mature and to figure out that the problem with the entitlement systems is NOT the people who use it.

Tambo touches on a question that popped into my mind when reading your suggestions: What chance will Minimum Wage have of eventually landing a better job if she or he moves to a rural area?

Sure, MW may have no problem getting one of those advertised minimum-wage jobs you mention. But she can’t live on nothing forever. She needs opportunities to move into better-paying work. Realistically, what kind of earning opportunities can she expect over the long run?

Hmmm… Come to think of it, how will MW get TO the rural area? It ain’t cheap to move. It looks a lot to me as though MW will have to first find a job in a cheaper place to live (rural area, small town) and then essentially leave everything behind–yard-sale or abandon ALL the worldly goods–and hop a Greyhound to the new abode.

We did just as suggested even though we are makeing “real money”. My only question is how would you get around in a rural area without a car? There are usually no busses or trains in rural communities (such as ours). Don’t kid yourself either because there are many opportunities to got out of the minimum wage rut and neighbor tend to help each other out more here as well. When an opportunity opens up, usually people let others in their immediate area know about it first. I am in agreement with all of the other suggestions too.

Kudos to you for being the first moneyblogger I read to actually engage Minimum Wage’s comments. I still haven’t decided if the comments are a stunt to show that the advice on a lot of these blogs doesn’t apply to a largish section of the population. But you’re right that they’re effective.

The problem with Tambo’s comparison is that $20,000 in 1987 is equivalent to about $36,000 a year today, after adjusting for inflation. The average cost of a new home in 1987 was $92,000, compared to $226,000 today. In 1987, the average cost of a new car was $10,300; today, it’s $27,800.

Anyone with a calculator can figure out that today’s equivalent of $20,000 isn’t going to buy nearly as much as it used to.

it,s a great tips.minimum wages should be clear for all.all issues are good to declare this.

“If you’re working a minimum wage job, either you’re very young, very lazy, or very unlucky.”

You were doing so well until the end there, Trent. Plenty of people–ordinary people, maybe not superachievers, but ordinary people–end up working minimum wage because that’s what’s available in the area for people of their education. What kind of job do you think a single mom without a college degree who’s trying to take care of her kids can get? What kind of jobs do you think are left behind when the WalMarts cause the local stores to close?

As tough as my own job is, I’ll tell you I have it easier than the folks who are on their feet ten to twelve hours a day cleaning, moving, restocking, with no health insurance and no respect from their employers or society (who assumes they are “very lazy”), any day of the week. I can’t believe how free people feel to judge other people based solely on their income. I know you’re a religious man, Trent; you’d have to look pretty hard in the Bible to find the Lord calling down his judgment upon poor folk. Now, the rich are another story.

Concerning “Minimum Wage” I would say the fact that he only earns minimum wage is probably not his biggest problem. It appears he probably lacks the ability to live within their means. I say that because in one of his posts he complains about not being able to get overdraft protection. While all of us can make an occasional mistake with the check register, my belief is that OD protection is just another means of using credit to supplement income and live above one’s means. Maybe Minimum Wage should focus more on doing things that can increase his value to an employer so he can start moving up the economic ladder. But even more money won’t help if he lacks self-control.

What sort of jobs can a single mother get without a college degree? The sort of jobs MY mother got. Secretary, cook, preschool teacher’s aide.

How about the same kind of jobs *I* got without a college degree? Executive assistant, technical support specialist, systems analyst. All paid over $40k per year.

The trick is to not think in a self-limiting manner. The reason I get so frustrated with Minimum Wage is that (s)he - as the poster said above - automatically assumes failure. Automatically assumes something can’t be done. Automatically assumes advice doesn’t apply to them. Automatically assumes there are no better jobs and no way out.

Pick up a book from the library as my mother did and as I did and do something to help yourself.

I think Trent’s advice was spot-on. Either you’re young, lazy, or unlucky if you’re working for minimum wage in this day and age.

What a great post! I personally have never lived on Minimum Wage, (Except in high school.) but I can tell you from experience - America Truly is the land of opportunity. You can do anything you want to do. Most people simply need to educated and their mind opened up to the possibilities. They are limitless.

Many of the clients that are referred to us have this type of limited belief. It is our job to give them the tools to see that they can do and be different. They feel nothing will ever change, but that is not the case. Life is too big to live small.

Thanks,

Matt Sullivan, CEO
Credit Dusters, Inc.
The Blog: http://creditdusters.wordpress.com/

By the way, I should mention that my mother raised me absolutely alone (no family within 100 miles of us) on a preschool teachers’ aide salary. We NEVER went on the dole. Never ate at a soup kitchen. Never visited a food pantry. That was absolutely out of the question for us. Not accepting government handouts made it harder on both of us - especially my mother - but Welfare is dehumanizing and abhorrent. You can survive without Welfare if you make it a priority.

Great article, I get minimum wage’s comments on my site too, it can be frustrating since its usually the first few comments and sometimes he/she nitpicks at certain things. But he/she does point out some good things like you said Trent.

If I were in a minimum wage situation, I believe it comes down to desire to get ahead. If your desire is strong enough, you won’t mind going rural, you won’t mind riding a bike, and you won’t mind living on just the basics. For every income level, there is relative frugality. It just depends if one wants it enough.

I would agree that minimum wage in this day and age comes from young, lazy or unlucky and I will also throw in the mix having a disability, even the slightest mental disabilities that may hold you back. Also, a lack of resources may be the case as well, say if you grew up poor with no formal education, no discipline, poor communication skills, etc that can definitely hold you back. To those who commented on Trent’s view on this, I don’t think Trent meant that every single minimum wage earner is lazy, young or unlucky, I read it as they CAN be lazy, young or unlucky.

Anyway, I believe that a min wage earner can get ahead, but in the end it depends on the person’s desire and specific situation.

Fwiw, my husband got the good job last year. 2006. Our income in 2005 was 19,400 BEFORE taxes.

I’m not saying it’s easy, but it’s not impossible either.

When you are on a low income, you really have to cut corners. Doing your own repairs can really help, as you would normally pay 50% labor on top of the cost of materials. I have put together a web page that can help people to save money and do things themselves.
Reg Bel
http://www3.telus.net/findNchoose/HowToTips.html

Great post Trent. I like the advice on moving somewhere cheaper, and eliminating the car.

A great place for people who are making minimum wage to jump into a job with slightly higher pay and benefits is an office/clerical job position. In the SF bay area, they are everywhere. These positions give the opportunity for advancement with experience, not education.

Also, many successful people have started off at minimum wage and worked there way up to be managers/supervisors, district managers and eventually end up in corporate. Find a company that values experience and performance and stick it out there, this paired with a desire to succeed and advance and really go above and beyond your job description can pay off monetarily in the end. Minimum wage can be a means to a great end, it does not have to be an end itself.

A weekend job working with mechanic, landscaper or construction company can lend on the job experience and training should one desire.

Also, check our your local community college and take a couple business/accounting classes at night, beef up your resume. Use your pay as an advantage, as you will likely get financial aid for the class.

-Prior minimum wage earner

I like this post. I agree that its hard but it is very possible. I went to community college part time ( free because of pell grants based on my income) and I went to school 3 times a week and studied while my son slept. I worked as a teachers aide and got very little support. 2 years later, making 6 figures. IT happened, and Im blessed. At 24 years old. My son is now 4 and we are very happy now, without Dad or his help.

Interesting post. It is great that you really addressed the noter’s concerns with applicable advice.

Though I do think in a rural area, you can’t get around without a car very well, especially if winter is involved (biking is hard on ice/snow).

I like this post and totally agree with the idea of moving out of a big expensive city if you’re working on lower wages.

The fact is that not everybody can or will “move on up” to a higher paying job. Many people–for many reasons–work low paying jobs for their entire working lives. And there’s nothing intrinsically wrong with that. The fact of the matter is that you CAN own a home, save for retirement, and live comfortably in America on minimum wage–just maybe not in Manhatten.

I grew up in rural AL, and most of my friends’ parents worked low paying or blue collar jobs. But everyone I knew owned a home, drove decent cars, and had all the basics such as AC, plenty of food, and even cable TV and internet. We all got new dresses for homecoming and uniforms for cheerleading/football. We all went to the same churches, restaurants, etc. Sure, some of these people were undoubtedly living beyond their means, but the fact is that stuff is CHEAP in AL–and in a lot of other places in this great country. Giant 4 bedroom houses on an acre of land go for less than $50,000. Land sells for hundreds of dollars an acre in many places (and I mean within an hour from big cities like Birmingham). Food costs pennies on the dollar compared to what I pay in Dallas. Property taxes (and cigarette and alcohol taxes) are miniscule. So if you don’t want a professional career, fine. Move to Alabama and live the high life–debt free–on minimum wage.

Jasmine, very very true. 22 years ago my wife was a waitress in a working class restaurant and a high school dropout. Today she’s a senior manager and on the advancement track. Why because she did exactly what you suggested, got her grade 12 and took a job as receptionist in a company that valued hard work over a piece of paper. Was it easy, no, it’s never easy working hard all day and hitting the books at home. Important is having good colleagues who are willing to help you learn the ropes and proboaly most important is a good attitude and sometimes good bosses who see the potential helps as well.

Today with the help of trent and others we’re plotting our escape for the corporate rat race.

One important note, Chris has always (except in the first few years) eraned an above average wage and I can tell you earning more means you can get more credit and naturally spend more. I get depressed when I think of how much money we wasted over the years. Being heavily in debt meant we never felt we were earning a great wage.

If minimum wage was single I’d suggest the following. Get a second job, move in with friends, move back home, get a cheaper apartment. Or go extreme. Eat on a dollar a day for a few months, or as one girl did it, go homeless. Sleep in the car, shower at the health club, eat at the restaurant you work at after work. Not for me but it’s worked for others.

Very interesting commments from everyone above. I’ve often said you can survie on less money I just never know how. thanks

What your post fails to take into account is the cyclical nature of working poverty. I have lived through this, and there are any number of factors you are overlooking:

1) As vh pointed out above, the cost associated with moving. Budgeting is not a magic wand, and it doesn’t make more money appear. If your fixed expenses are running very close to your income, it’s next to impossible to save up enough to have a security deposit on a new place.

2) Additional jobs are nearly impossible to come by, for a simple reason: scheduling. Most service-sector jobs, even those that pay above minimum wage, have a very irregular schedule. If you’re hoping to get enough hours to earn enough to live, most employers require open availability. If you don’t know what hours you’ll be working at your primary job next week, you can’t schedule your secondary job, etc. Many employers are unwilling to hire someone who already has a job for this reason. (I know this because they’ve told me so themselves.)

3.) When you change jobs, there is often a delay of 2-4 weeks before you start getting paid, due to pay schedules, paperwork delays, etc. This means you have to be ahead on all your bills before you can even think about finding another job.

Because of financial aid shortfalls and health problems, I had to withdraw from college and fall back on the just-above-minimum wage job that was paying my rent. Even with minimizing expenses (2 roommates, and doing just about everything you suggested above) I could barely keep up with medical bills and rent. I escaped this cycle because of persistence and luck: my friend’s wealthy parents helped me out, and I registered for classes just long enough to qualify for student loans. My gamble paid off, but it could just as easily turned out badly.

In retrospect, there were several programs and entitlements that could have helped me, especially with the medical bills. However, these options weren’t made known to me at the time, and jumping through the hoops to get them would have been next to impossible given my irregular work schedule and lack of reliable transportation.

To say that “If you’re working a minimum wage job, either you’re very young, very lazy, or very unlucky,” is a drastic oversimplification, and is insulting to the people who have lived through this scenario.

Stick to the investment advice.

When my husband and I were first married we lived on about $12,000 a year (we were married in 2003). We were both in college full time, working minimum wage jobs (2 each), and paying for school using whatever means available to us (grants, loans, scholarships, and ROTC). And as a side note, ROTC is a great way to pay for college, they will give you a scholarship, and a monthly stipend, and they only require a four year commitment after graduation, if you really want an education, and don’t know how to pay for it, ROTC is worth looking into. We budgeted every penny we had, even washing clothes in the bathtub to save on having to go to the laundry mat. We both rode bicycles everywhere we needed to go, including to the grocery store (we found a cargo trailer for $10 at a garage sale and used that to haul our groceries back home) and even in the dead of winter when there was snow and ice on the ground (there’s a lot of things you’ll do if you are truly desperate). And we found that a crate of ramen and a carton of eggs goes a long way!

We had to lose a lot of our pride, we ate the free lunch provided once a week by the Campus ministry, and even got to know the pastor, who started giving us the leftovers to take home. I have no problem with public assistance for people who need it, like we did. We were on Medicaid, because we needed it, and when our daughter was born, we were on WIC and Welfare. Now that my husband has a good job, we aren’t on those programs anymore, but have a lot of compassion for those who need them. There is no shame in taking help when you need it. That being said, we never felt as if we deserved anything from the government. We always viewed it as a temporary situation that would end after we graduated, and it did. We were using it to better ourselves, and that’s the perspective we always had.

AS an afterthought. Minimum wage does have a very valid point. Most PF blogs are written from a solidy middle class backgound and haven’t had to raise a family on salary that approaches the poverty line. So how can they relate to those that do.

My suggestion is that for you Trent to open up your blog to the occasional guest post. I for one (as a solidly middle class person) would like to know how they do it. I think it would show those who read that earning a good wage isn’t a prerequisite to a middle class life.

For example I’d like to know how a family can live on anything less than 50,000 a year in Southern Ontario. I don’t think it can be done, not at least if you wish to own a house and raise a family.

Rob, that’s not the point of this blog. If the people who make minimum wage are dissatisfied with the advice offered, then why don’t they write their own blog? If it becomes popular, it would act as an alternate source of income for them as well.

A blogger cannot cater to 100% of the population with every post - or indeed with the entire blog. Nor should they try to.

Just some some food for thought-minimum wage is not $7 in each and every state. In many states it is $5.85 or in the case of Wyoming it’s $5.15

And really, I don’t think it was very necessary to state that a person earning min. wage might be lazy. It might be the truth but it just seemed like you were provoking. It seemed about as appropriate as saying people who go into debt are either “lazy, stupid or unlucky.”

If I were making minimum wage, my first priority would be finding a job that paid more than minimum wage. Heck, I had not problem getting a job paying above minimum wage even when I was in high school.

Whats more important your life or money?
This is terrible advice you are giving.
You only get to live once so why not LIVE LIFE.
I feel really bad for all you pathetic cheapskates!
All of you are talking about saving money and what not…but at the end of your life you cant take it anywhere so why not enjoy it on yourself if not those you care for.
Go to college and get a real job like the rest of us or just work for the government/post office you make a lot more than minimum wage.

Blessed - For some reason, I did not feel blessed by your comments. I did not “complain” about not being able to get OD protection, I merely mentioned it in response to some post which mentioned it. I’m not even sure I can’t get it - my checking account is “clean” and I have not bounced any checks - but when I asked about it they said they run your credit, and as someone pointed out, I “assume failure”. But I’m not willing to ding my credit further with a credit pull without some assurance I’ll be approved.

I have a dead-end minimum-wage job where the entire pay range is from min wage to 20 cents above min wage (earned by a few long-timers). Superior performance won’t get you a raise here and mediocre performance won’t get you a pay cut.

I started out with student loan debt; I didn’t overspend on consumer crap. I’m using an old used PC with no bells and whistles and I have a $10 dial-up connection. I had an extended uninsured illness which trashed my credit.

I am a boomer with no marketable skills and I can’t afford to go back to school to get some. And even if I were to go get, say, an accounting degree, how employable would I become? How many employers are hiring boomers these days for entry-level accounting positions?

Ramen is a bad idea. When poor, try to absorb as much nutrition as you can; but remember, the less you eat, the longer you live (scientific fact).

Educate yourself is key

Instead of saving $530 a year, you can save $20000 a year with education — remember to save using gold, not cash. hehe

No one can help you, Minimum Wage, because you refuse to help yourself - and you keep refusing the more people try to help you. I hate to be mean, but consider that you yourself and your attitude might be exactly what is keeping you where you are.

Minimum Wage, this is old old news to most of us who visit the pf blogs. You must have a bunch of time on your hands to leave these comments.

How can you possibly have no marketable skills - what have you been doing for the last 30 years? Get off the blogs and get to work! Volunteer someplace and learn something new, ask your friends for informational interviews and see what they are working at, what their companies are looking for, make connections and ask somebody to take a chance on you. Trent is working three jobs to reach his goals, and he’s going to get there. Why aren’t you willing to step up and do more? Do you know what your goals are?

Minimum Wage, your comments are illustrating very clearly how you appear to assume something won’t work. I am having a difficult time even imagining a place with that range of wages. What are your student loans from? You have a degree and the best job you can find pays minimum wage (+20 cents)? What other jobs have you found that you are turning down? A fast food joint or a grocery store would have better wage options than that.

Even if we were to believe that you have no other options than to be paid minimum wage, that is still absolutely no grounds for the gloom and financial despair you seem to be in. It is absolutely possible to get ahead on minimum wage. Perhaps part of the problem is that you spend so much time complaining how personal finance blogs don’t suit you instead of getting out and putting yourself in a better situation.

I’m sorry if I sound harsh and a little too optimistic about that whole “American Dream” fairytale, but your comments suggest you belong in the lazy category. With the information you’ve shared, I just can’t offer sympathy for your situation.

It’s frustrating to read Trent’s posts that implore people to put their pride aside and accept community help, and then read so many comments condemning the use of welfare, WIC and soup kitchens. The arrogance reeks. Do you guys realize you are reading a blog about overcoming financial hardship?

It is not arrogance on my part - and on my mother’s. It is principle. I do not believe that Welfare is a good or just or reputable program, and so I do not receive benefits - never have and never will. If other people have different principles, let them act on them, as I have acted - and will always act - on mine.

There is a very big difference between arrogance and principle, and I wish that more people would learn it.

Reading through the comments, there seems to be a big stigma against using social services like WIC, welfare, soup kitchens, etc. Don’t feel bad about using these services. There are there for a reason, to help folks in need. Use the services. Don’t feel embarrassed. The problem is not using these services, but living off them. You shouldn’t expect to use the soup kitchen for the rest of your life. But if you’re stuck in a rut and need some help, use the soup kitchen.

Mr. Minimum Wage did make a valid point that in many degrees, nobody wants to hire middle-aged people for entry level positions. It may be age discrimination, but it happens. One of my friends is 28, and just graduated with a degree in accounting. He interviewed with a major nationally-known accounting firm, and he was denied a job; they explicitly told him that he was too old for the job. He would have had bosses younger than him, and the company assumed he would not be fine working for people younger than him. Age discrimination happens.

That said, there are plenty of opportunities to succeed. Several commenters have offered their stories. For me, I worked at Walmart for awhile. When I started, I was paid $8.20/hour. A year and a half later, I was making $9.85/hour. And if I stayed, I could have been promoted and make even more. Plus, despite what you read in the media, Walmart’s benefits are actually pretty decent, especially for the lower-wage sector. Most low wage jobs will give you worse benefits than Walmart, or no benefits at all.

Mr. Minimum wage, if you have no opportunity for advancement at your current job, look for a new minimum wage job, but one with advancement opportunities. Look at grocery stores. Look at restaurants. The opportunities are there. You just have to look for them and work to get ahead.

I agree with Rick’s far more diplomatic comment regarding welfare, soup kitchens &c.

In response to Amanda’s comment, I am not confusing arrogance with principles. I think the principle of refusing to give or accept help is arrogant, as is condemning others for accepting or offering this help. When people express their disdain for the welfare system, they often also, implicitly or expressly, express disdain for the people who use it. I think it is arrogant for people to condemn a service and the people who use it because they themselves have never felt they needed it. And to clarify, “qualifying for” doesn’t always equate to “needing.”

Even if you disagree with the way the government, chuch, or next-door neighbors distribute their help, judging the people who need and accept it only makes things worse. Are you doing anything to change things, or just objecting to the way things are now? I am not saying this to attack you, I think it’s a problem with people worldwide, especially Americans. Nobody objects to free speech because it’s just talk. So few people actually do anything.

Sorry that went off on a tangent, but I am not confusing arrogance with principles.

Actually, Louise, you are. If my principles make me arrogant in your eyes, fine. I honestly don’t care. You can’t tell me that we didn’t need it when I was 12 and my mother went without food for 3 days at a time so that I could have something in my stomach that we didn’t “need” Welfare. She went hungry rather than have someone else foot the tab because she hadn’t bothered to finish college. Frankly, I think that’s damned noble - certainly not arrogant. Hard to be arrogant when you can’t sleep because you’re hungry. The point is, she took _personal responsibility_ for her actions - something you seem to be all for when you want Minimum Wage to do it, but sadly this “principle” is lacking when you attack me. :)

And am I doing something to change things? Absolutely. I’m working to end the entitlements system in this country. As hard as ever I can. If private charities want to step in to help the indigent, let them. I believe that helping the poor should be voluntary, not coerced as it is now. Do I personally give to charity? Yes. Every month. There is a difference between coercion and desire.

While I think at times welfare can be ineffecitve, I wholeheartedly believe it serves a good purpose. Sometime you have to swallow your pride take and recieve help. The problem with welfare is not getting on it, but never leaving it. Welfare and government assistance programs have helped many a family in time of need. My family took welfare assistance when I was young, and it helped my dad learn english and get a job. My family now has collectively given much back in taxes. I think that’s fair. Welfare and other government assistance programs are not so different from helping hand from family. I don’t see accepting help in order to be contributing member of society as a bad thing.

Trent, what is the bottle in the photo? Maybe I just didn’t read your post closely enough…

Trent, thank you for this post and while I, like many others here, disagree with your last point about why people are stuck in minimum wage jobs, I was relieved that someone finally opened the subject up for serious discussion. It’s great that so many people are taking an interest in personal finance, but it can be difficult for the “working poor” in this country to apply many of the concepts discussed in the PF blogs.

In response to Minimum Wage’s comments I would like to say that nothing is impossible, even with chronic illness and medical bills. If you give up before you even try, or at the beginning of your efforts then your life never will improve. If that’s what you really want, then keep at it. Otherwise, if you want your life to change then you have to try and you have to open your mind to the possibility that your circumstances can change. And if you have been trying for some time and feel like your banging your head against a brick wall, then try a new tack. Just because your a boomer doesn’t mean it’s hopeless, after all your life isn’t over yet.

How can I have no marketable skills? I did data entry for many years and have NO desire to ever go back to it. I’m not aware that it afforded me ANY skills useful for ANY other kind of job.

I have no money to go back to school, I can’t get dinancial aid, and I have nothing to wear to an interview - whatever would I do if I were actually offered an interview? (My resume, showing a dead-end job history, hasn’t gotten me an interview in many years.) Between student loans and a very aggressive creditor, the giant sucking you hear is almost $300 per month being slurped out of my pocket. That’s why I can’t save a dime, and that’s why I despair.

I’ve been considering blogging, but I know I am in a small minority - and a small minority which is economically powerless, so the people who might benefit from it would mostly never see it, and I don’t see how under those constraints I could ever make any significant money doing it. I’m looking for something I can do from home to make money.

Amanda, I think my main problem/confusion with your perspective is that it’s okay to give if you feel like it, but it is never okay to accept help. Even if you haven’t eaten in three days.

Minimum Wage, how about working through b2b (business to business) web sites like Elance.com? It would basically be a freelancing gig but you could earn good money if you dedicated yourself to it. If you don’t have any useful skills to offer, you could always borrow a book or two in the library and learn them. That’s what I did and it payed off. Good luck to you.

Amanda, if you actually think a person, any person, much less your own mom, deserves to go three days at a time without eating for the unforgivable sin of not finishing college, I pity you. I really do. I hope you never find yourself in the situation of needing help yourself. It’s closer than you want to think, lurking around the corner for almost all of us. Throwing your hate at those who use the system, pouring your energy into making sure that other people get less, that may help you *feel* like you’re putting more distance between yourself and the shame and suffering of your childhood poverty, but in fact all that venom, all that determination that people who accept help are bad, lazy, totally unlike you, won’t protect you one bit if fate decides to take a swipe at you or you–unthinkable, I know–were to make a few bad decisions in a row.

(To whoever mentioned it, Wal-Mart has an admitted practice of preventing people from working enough hours to qualify for their benefits package, so I don’t think it’s exactly accurate to refer to it as available to the average worker.)

Coming from another culture (New Zealand) where I don’t see a lot of libertarians it’s interesting to hear Amanda’s viewpoint. I have had govt assistance for quite a while and also then worked and paid taxes. It’s this give and take and working together that has helped a lot of people and makes the world a nicer place to live. I wonder what the world would be like if only the consistently strong survived. Where the elderly, disabled and sick had no recourse.

I wonder what Amanda’s principle is based on? If she fell to the ground and someone offered her a hand to help her up. Would she take it? Or struggle to her feet herself, perhaps afraid of being indebted to, or relying on anyone else.

I don’t know MW, since you have self professed your own doom, you might as well go for suicide.

It seems to me that MW is more interested in complaining than in doing anything to solve his problems. But to address one of his concerns: I interviewed for my current job wearing a suit that I got at a thrift store for $30.

Actuslly, Sarah, programs like Welfare make sure that _everyone_ gets less - not just the wealthy, whose money is stolen to pay for the programs, but the poor as well. State-sponsored welfare programs restrict charitable giving, as has been proven over and over again. State-sponsored welfare programs are even more prone to abuse than private charities. THAT is why I object to programs like Welfare and would never take (and have never taken) any assistance from them.

As I keep stating, I’m all for private charitible giving. If people have other principles than mine, there’s no stopping them from reaching out to private charity. I didn’t mention that they were bad and lazy. You seem to be reading more than I wrote down. Hm… wonder why that is.

Minimum Wage shows up on all the PF blogs with the same story and the same response to advice and commentary?

How funny. Don’t you see it? MW is Bartleby!

Don’t know what that means? Set aside the self-help books and take a few minutes to read something meaningful, with a timeless message: http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/11231

There’s a lot of anger on this site today. MW’s comments ARE frustrating because he seems to predict and then enact doom for himself. But I don’t think he’s lazy, stupid, any of the above. MW, have you been checked for clinical depression? This illness traps people into negative spirals while also siphoning away energy for change and hope. There are free services available, and whether the answer is medication, counseling, or whatever, it is worth pursuing.
The person who commented that Amanda’s “principle” of not accepting help is a defense to distance herself from her painful childhood poverty is right on. There seems to be so much pain in her postings. People are shamed for being poor in this country, and if a child endures both shame and privation, and also absorbs the parent’s shame and despair, there is every reason to try to build a wall against that. But counseling, prayer, genuine self love can move you past that. I don’t condemn her for her views, for they seem to reflect a deep hurt at the center.

I have reality-based depression: it’s not all in my head. I don’t think there are any meds for that.

Ryan, poor form. I may not agree with MW world view, but I can tell that he is in a bad place. Even if you are not a fan, why would you push someone like that? I hope MW dosen’t take your “advise”. I am sure you didn’t really mean it, but casually throwing something like that out can be devistating.

Dear Minimum Wage, “I am a boomer with no marketable skills and I can’t afford to go back to school to get some.” How can you have student loan debt when you have no marketable skills? What did you learn at school? You’re a boomer, which means you’ve been out of school for 30 years AND YOU’RE STILL PAYING OFF STUDENT LOAN DEBT? Is there a chance you’re just a Leftist baiting the hard working, thrifty people who are using Trent’s blog to share ideas to get ahead? I bet you’re a government employed Socialist feeding at the public trough or employed by some “poverty industry foundation” making up a bunch of lies. People are dying in an attempt to sneak into this country for the booming economic opportunity. Mexicans sneak in illegally, and make $10./ hour and more off the books without the ability to speak English. IF YOU’RE A BOOMER MAKING MINIMUM WAGE YOU ARE LAZY. I think you’re a fruad baiting the hardworking people who use thrift and hard work to get ahead.

I am also one who worked my way out of poverty. To say that no one will help is simply wrong, and insulting to the number of individuals and charities willing to lend a hand to those who need it. May I make a suggestion that Minimum Wage pursue employment at a hospital? As a registered nurse (formerly a secretary/data entry/minimum wage earner), I’ve never seen a hospital that doesn’t offer even the lowest wage earner tuition reimbursement. In fact, in the geographic area where I presently work, the shortage of nurses is so severe that hospitals are paying employees up front to enter nursing school. A two year associate’s degree entitles one to sit for the NCLEX exam, and you’ll definitely make more than minimum wage from the start. I’m not saying it’s easy work, never has been, but I’m well into middle age and continue to get up everyday and go in. That’s reality based.

If I were making minimum wage and unskilled with no motivation to become skilled, I’d simply open the classified ads in the paper and look at the hundreds of ads for unskilled labor that pay more than minimum wage. Problem solved. Next issue please.

I got a liberal arts degree because I wanted to go to law school and that required a degree. I had a minor in com sci. By the time I graduated, law school had become a lot more expensive and I was seeing people come out of law schools and take menial jobs to pay their student loans, so borrowing up to my eyeballs for law school seemed pretty risky. The emerging PC rendered my mainframe-based IT skills obsolete, and I couldn’t afford to keep my computer skills current. (I didn’t even have a (cheap) PC until the ’90s.)

So I made student loan paymewts when I was able, and deferred the loans when I couldn’t pay them. But you can do that for only so long, and eventually I bumped into a time limit. Since my lender was unwilling to accept anything less than the scheduled monthly payment, I defaulted. That bundled my accrued interest into the principal, causing the balance to grow even faster, plus there were a bunch of fees added. So now my balance is even greater than the amount I borrowed.

And no, I’m not a “poverty pimp” or anything like that, plus I’m also pretty sore about illegal immigration. (I’m not so much concerned with illegals taking my job and depressing my wages - not a significant problem in my sector - my problem is that their presence is inflating rents because they’re taking up a lot of space, and I can’t afford any more rent inflation.)

How am I lazy? I’d love to see you try doing MY job for two weeks. I have to deal daily with a walking gallery of social problems (bums, street people, gangbangers, shoplifters, wackos, crackheads, methheads, drunks, scammers, you name it) and on weekends I also get to do a lot of extra work because the previous shift couldn’t be bothered to lift a finger.

I see lots and lots of opportunity, but I haven’t figured out how to take advantage of it when I have no money and no available credit. Heck, I went to the Bay Area for a weekend and returned home with two new business ideas. But ideas are worthless without capital.

I have lots of motivation to become skilled. Where do I sign up?

I enjoy this blog, but it’s naive to think the advice here is written for all people. I think this particular post had some good advice, but also a great deal of wishful thinking.

For instance, is this hypothetical minimum wage worker supposed to leave any family that they possess or even any friends and take a Greyhound to a rural area, where they will have no one? How are they going to be sure to find apartments near where these low paid jobs are? Things are quite spread out in the rural areas of the country.

Economic powerlessness is real and it is an integral part of the United States economy. Our system is not designed so that everyone can live a middle class life style. I don’t favor the alternative, as I think that’s even worse. However, I do favor a strong social safety net, so that those who wind up doing the lowest paid work still have basic access to housing, health care, etc.

There are a great number of people posting on this thread, and in US culture, who have completely bought in to the “bootstraps” myth. I think our society is worse off for not taking a more nuanced approach.

FTR, I’m not poor and I make quite a bit more than the minimum wage. But I’m not so high and mighty that I think I could never wind up back at the bottom, through no fault of my own.

Here in the Rust Belt, my 18yo dd makes $1200 working 16 days per month at a local factory. The work is hard, hot, and fast-paced. Being surrounded by middle-ager who made decisions long-ago to not pursue higher education has sparked in her a newfound appreciation for pursuing a college education.

How did I escape minimum wage with no degree or job skills? I changed crappy jobs regularly until I landed a temp position at a company where my hard work and contributions were recognized and valued. I advanced through there. There were smarter and more skilled people around than me, but I always made it a point to work harder than them, and it paid off. I also looked for opportunities to contribute beyond what my job required of me (from moving heavy boxes to proposing more efficient ways to get aspects of our business done).

Once I could afford it, I started taking classes and other job training nights and weekends to increase my value to an employer, and moved up from there. I made a case to my employer about what they would get out of me taking the training, and I was able to talk them into letting me adjust my work schedule around it, and later on even getting reimbursed for the expenses.

I was not a kid at this time, so I don’t think age is a valid excuse. We also had an intern who was middle aged who, because of his hard work and dedication, got hired and promoted multiple times.

The only reason I can think of why someone would really be as limited as MW would be if they were sick or otherwise had some disability. There are opportunities all around us, and when there aren’t (like if you live in an area like where I grew up), change your situation until there are. Sell all your stuff, get a bus ticket, and get out of there. It may sound extreme, but that’s what I did.

Living with your parents always helps. You could even afford a car!

I think it’s scary for the mother of a small child to go 3 days without food instead of accepting some kind of assistance. You have a responsibility to stay healthy for your kids when you are in that situation, and to disregard that for pride’s sake does not strike me as noble; it sounds like risky self punishment. There are many instances in which I might not consider assistance necessary, but that’s not one. I am glad things worked out for your family.

I grew up in a smallish town with an economy dependent on tourism revenue. There, it’s easy to get a job making minimum wage at the mall, or a hotel, or a grocery store, or some sort of food service. Finding something above minimum wage is more challenging.

So, in that situation, what are the best jobs for someone with few marketable skills?

-The hospital. Very secure, and once you’re in you have access to the better (read: day shift) internal job postings. Downsides: hard to get in, and the external postings tend to be few hours or evening shifts. Looking at the postings right now, starting pay is about $9/hr.

-Manufacturing. Boring, repetitive, but the pay compensates. In my home town there’s a Sara Lee bakery, and a cardboard box manufacturing site. I believe starting pay is $10/hr

Barring that, there’s the two-job option. When I was in college, I worked as a bank teller during the day, and in retail sales in the evening and on weekends. The retail job knew they weren’t my primary job, and were more than happy to work around my bank schedule, which changed from week to week but was set far enough in advance. I know MW said there were health problems, and standing for that long used to hurt my feet, and might be untenable, but I wanted to mention the dual job option. I know when Mom managed the loading docks at Marshall Fields, she had many employees who worked for her in the morning (5:30-1pm) and went directly to a second job. Not all employers will work with you to coordinate two jobs, but many will understand.

For what it’s worth, I would be interested in a blog, if Minimum Wage started one. I had found a blog a while back by a gent who was making a little more than minimum wage, but I have since lost the URL. The last time I read, he had just gotten a new washing machine from a Rent-a-center, was working nights as a security guard, and posted something to the effect that he stops paying the utility bills (gas?) in March, so the heat is turned off in April, and has to pay the bill up to current plus the installation fee to have the heat turned back on in November. As someone who has never had such problems, it was fascinating, but I felt guilty that I was treating it like a documentary about poverty. From the other side of the blogosphere, I could do nothing to change it, and could only watch the problems unfold. And maybe add a tiny bit of revenue via Google ad click-throughs.

I was kind of surprised that you said “Ramen is very cheap, filling, and full of carbs, for example.”

While these things are true, Ramen is loaded with sodium (over 850 miligrams per serving!!!), and doesn’t provide a whole lot else nutritionally. So yes, it is cheap and filling, and I suppose when the choice is eat unhealthily or starve, I’d go with the Ramen…but there are healthier options out there as well (such as the community dinners, or even just some simple pasta with chicken, which is super cheap if you buy frozen and in bulk).

So, I don’t feel like getting into the fray here, but a useful bit of info for MW:

“I have reality-based depression: it’s not all in my head. I don’t think there are any meds for that.”

I also have had to work with what’s called “reactive” or reality-based depression. Mine was caused by my mother’s being diagnosed with terminal cancer. It spiraled for a while because I refused to get help, I thought that I couldn’t be helped because I had such a good reason to be depressed.

It did a lot of psychological damage that I’m still undoing, but the meds made a tremendous improvement in my energy, my initiative, my ability to deal with it, etc. There are generics which cost $4 for a month’s supply and a clinic should be able to prescribe them.

Of course, you also have to want to get through the depression. In my case, even though I had good reasons to be depressed, the meds helped me deal with those reasons much better than I was doing on my own. So look into them if you can, I think they’d help.

Benefits/welfare are one of the reasons that I am willing to pay taxes, take everything that you are eligible for because that is why they are there. Going without food for days just because you are too disdainful of accepting help isn’t noble, its dumb.

I agree with several commenters who pointed out that you require some money to move - you need to be able to get out of your payday to payday existence from where you are. To do that, requires some luck - not getting sick, and not losing your job.

When you’re near the bottom of the ladder, it doesn’t take much to push you off - you could just be a little unlucky rather than a lot unlucky.

Young, lazy, or unlucky??

I don’t think ‘luck’ has anything to do with it. Many people who take perfect care of themselves are afflicted with debilitating illnesses every day–this isn’t ‘luck.’ Sometimes, there is no answer, no way to make it work.

My sister is bi-polar–for the past 8 years, she has spent 4-6 months each YEAR in a mental hospital. Whatever job she had before the hospitalization is terminated, making her more unlikely to get hired afterwards. Despite all this, she is trying to get her bachelor’s degree. Unfortunately, she has only been able to finish half of her semesters of classes. She also is afflicted with ADD and dyslexia, so she can only take a few classes at a time. In addition, her disease actually makes her spend money haphazardly in her manic phase–the credit card companies just keep letting her have access to it. Money management is the least of her worries. Her disease is unpredictable and severe. I know that she is not alone in this predicament. Unlucky doesn’t even begin to cover the half of it. Lots of horrible stuff happens–it is NOT luck or the lack thereof. it just is.

I would hardly call minimum wage workers ‘lazy,’ either. Most min. wage jobs are physically demanding, tedious bores. I’ve never worked so hard than when I had my early college jobs. It’s very very difficult to imagine applying for a higher wage job or getting an education when you have 3 kids to feed, you are tired to your bones, you’re making your monthly payments only to have them due again as soon as you get your check, and you have 45 other seemingly higher priority tasks shoved in your face every day. It takes tremendous courage and skill to overcome those obstacles and make your life better for yourself.

I do agree that there are options for Minimum Wage, though, provided your health is intact. You may have to take a job you hate and work extra hours in order to advance. At this point, it doesn’t sound like an internship in your chosen field of study would cut your income, so i’d look into something like that. What about online education courses? As long as you have your health, there are ALWAYS options. You may sleep a little less, but you can figure something out. You’ll do that and change when you are ready…right now you seem defeated and beaten down. At some point you will get fed up, hit your rock bottom, and take some action steps. Otherwise, things will NEVER change. That is your worst fear, right? That you’ll be stuck in the same position when you’re 85? I know it’s hard, but I think you have the wherewithall to improve your situation–your writing is coherent and grammatically correct, you are smart enough to realize your situation is dire, and you read money blogs–you have a lot going for you. i really do think that. Good luck.

Oh, one more comment: if you exhaust all other resources and STILL resist getting assistance in order to feed your child because of some stubborn view of welfare, this does not make you noble, in my opinion. Your child just went hungry because of your ‘principles’–I look at this as abuse. It is ok to get help sometimes.

I’m having difficulty making “Sense” of this…I don’t know how to go back to school, offline or online, since I have no money and cannot get student loans. It seems like it shouldn’t be too hard to get something online started to make money.

MW- if you have a liberal arts degree, you could teach. You would just have to pass the basic exam. While you are waiting for a teaching job, you can substitue teach. It pays a lot more than min. wage.

Anyone who won’t take help when they are starving is being a martr. Also the government has these programs to help its citizens. Look at the 1930s. People had to use soup kitchens/government help because they were starving to death and couldn’t find work.

Sir
Just the president of Tanzania had said jaza jaza kebaba or drop by drop one day you will succeed. But he meant to save.
This was then in 60s when we got the independence
But the geed of just those few coins coming in each at a time for no work is just what this article is acted on.
We are filled with graft and we are with him but for our pockets. It is a great article to read but this just does not work in practice. Say go urban, then your expenses go up, go rural then your expenses goes up anyway because the tax guys are everywhere.
You just cannot avoid them
What is more? The mining authorities have the contracts that baffle us the public.
The 5% or so is on the earth dug. This earth I am talking is filled with iron, steel, silver, gold, diamond, etc. The contract ought to be on what is dug up i.e. the minerals not the earth. So this is a big farce.

Firozali A.Mulla MBA PhD
P.O.Box 6044
Dar-Es-Salaam
Tanzania
East Africa

Most states still require teachers to get a teaching certificate which usually requires a year of education courses. And there is very little government help for childless adults working full time for minimum wage. No food stamps, no welfare, and housing help is hard to get because the underclass overburdens what little help exists and it’s a crap shoot - housing help was available for 3K people and 9K applied. A new Section 8 apartment building was built in my neighborhood a couple years ago and the gangbangers moved in and took it over.

I mean as much as I’d like help Minimum Wage, and offer him or her good advice (which has been readily offered here in this thread), I think we need to all accept MW for what he or she is. A Troll.

Well MW, you can sub while getting that certificate. They don’t cost much.
Obviously you don’t want to do anything to help yourself. People have given you numerous ideas and you have shot all of them down over small simple things that everyone else does to get ahead in life.

“I’m not so much concerned with illegals taking my job and depressing my wages - not a significant problem in my sector - my problem is that their presence is inflating rents because they’re taking up a lot of space, and I can’t afford any more rent inflation”
There is one thing you could probably learn from illegals - how they come to the US with nothing and often don’t even know English, yet manage to make a living, often more than minimum wage, and even have some money left to send back home. In this area we have many illegal live-in nannies. They often earn over $200 a week, and as they get room and board, don’t own a car and don’t need fancy clothes, that’s $200 a week saved money. The same nannies sometimes supplement their income by cleaning houses - around here this is over $15 an hour. Not all of them are young; I’ve seen some who are in their 40s and 50s.

There are jobs out there that pay more than minimum wage, even unskilled ones like housecleaning. As people said, you could go back to the job you hate and try to advance there, or switch to another minimum wage job but with a chance for advancement like becoming a supervisor.

I am sorry, but as a first generation immigrant (legal) who came to this country as a refugee from a communist country with nothing yet managed to make good living, I just don’t see how an educated American with no English problems cannot find ways to earn more than the minimum wage.

Minimum Wage, I’m working on a piece about minimum wage for GRS. I came over here to see if you’d responded to Trent, and I’m glad to see you have. I wish you’d reply to my e-mails.

You are obviously intelligent and articulate. You absolutely could start a blog about your situation, and I’ll bet many in the pfblogging community would help boost it at the start. I certainly would. I like to read what you write, and you offer a voice that isn’t available anywhere else that I’ve found.

And while I sympathize with the fact that you work for just over minimum wage in a convenience store, I do think you give yourself too many excuses. You say that you can’t go back to school because you can’t afford it and because you can’t get loans. Why can’t you get loans? Why can’t you take classes at a Portland Community College? I guarantee you that a few classes at PCC can yield marketable skills that will get you a job above minimum wage.

E-mail me. I have ideas to help you, but so long as you do not respond, I have trouble taking your complaints seriously.

I’ve worked some minimum wage jobs in my life, but those were all when I was younger. I’d love to share stories from those who’ve worked minimum wage in the past but found a way out, or from those who are still mired in minimum wage jobs. What advice do you have to others who work minimum wage? What’s the best way to move up? What didn’t work?

If you’re willing to share your story, please post it in the GRS forums. (If you need to register, use the VIP code 0325)

Yes, MW, you are right, there is no hope for a minimum wage middle aged liberal arts degree holder in this world. You are right. You might as well give up all hope. Forget trying to remedy your situation, since it is hopeless. Forget all this useless advice on this thread. Yes, I am humoring you.

Unconventional situations call for unconventional tactics. The big problem is the student loans. You can’t get rid of them via bankruptcy. The solution is to simply stop paying them. What can they do? Go after you? You have no assets for them to go after. They can garnish your wages but there are several solutions for that:

1) Continually switch jobs whenever wage garnishment catches up to you

2) Work in the underground cash environment.

3) Sign up with overseas organizations teaching english/building wells/etc in 3rd world countries.

I know that several people have mentioned teaching but using the alternate route to get your certification. Your answer is “Most states require…” Yes, most states require classes, but they can be taken during the time you are teaching. Since someone mentioned Portland (Oregon, I assume) I looked it up, because I have more important things to do that I am putting off.
As near as I can tell, certification “alternate route style” in Oregon requires a BA. (If you can get your transcript with a defaulted loan) and a few tests. Yes, there are some startup costs involved. But you could spread them out over the next year, making it a goal of teaching in 2008-2009. Why can’t you suddenly have a desire to teach? Mid-life crisis. Spouse/family/friends/blogosphere tired of listening to you complain about how you can’t contribute more to society. Etc. Etc.
During that year, you could be an assistant part-time at $11 an hour, which might work in with your other job and look better on your resume’. Also pay for those exams.
Next year you would have a license valid for three years. During those three years you have to have a mentor (possibly paid out of your pocket) and get your regular license. Mentor (NJ price) $1000 for on year. Graduate classes at Portland State ..8 credits per year $4000.
You might protest that the first semester you want to concentrate on teaching and start in January. Unless you have a thousand or so saved from that part-time assisting (additional 8,000). But a chunk of that will be used in clothes for interviews, resume paper, test costs, transportation costs, taxes, some lifestyle inflation. Wage garnishment won’t affect that for a year.
If you end up teaching for the same school district, wage garnishment may be an issue when you start teaching so you might get a plan in place before then.
Still, you can double your annual income….

J.D. - Thank you for the invite. I have an AOL-type account where you get more than one “screen name” and I hardly ever go check that one; e-mails scroll off after a few weeks so I’ve probably been missing your e-mails entirely. (I remember seeing one awhile back when I was busy with something.)

Alas, I am one of those evil student loan defaulters Reagan warned you about. (For younger readers who might not have been around at the time, Reagan changed the student loan rules so that borrowers who defaulted became ineligible for additional loans or grants. Sounds like a no-brainer, but some people were abusing the system to borrow more and more money they never paid back. But this hosed borrowers like me who really needed to be able to borrow to advance careers.) I deferred my loans as long as I could and eventually ran intoi a non-negotiable time limit.

I have been making interest-only payments on my student loans for several years, but I’d have to make larger payments to get the loans out of default. And I have an aggressive creditor sucking $200/mo out of my pocket. THAT is why I can’t even take community college classes.

I don’t think I would categorize it as earning minimum wage so much as a “Minimum Wage Mentality”. My husbands mother is minimum wage single mom of one that just can’t get ahead. She’s been using this excuse for years. It’s all in her mindset. She can’t afford anything but somehow has the money for cable with movie channels, smoking, frequent trips to the dollar store for crap.

My family (2 parents, 3 children) made the same amount as husbands mom (one parent, 1 child) . We never had cable, grew most of our own food, and wore our coats around our house in the winter because we kept the house so cold to save money.

My parents never thought they were poor, so they never were. Mother-in-law has always thought she is poor, so she is. Now my parents have a fully paid off house valued at $250,000 and commercial rental property fully paid off in town, and a lot of money in retirement. My parents never thought they weren’t making enough though, they were always thankful for what they had and even found a way to give at least 10% of their income to less-fortunate people. Mother-in-law doesn’t own her $20,000 house yet (got a 30 yr mortgage on it) and has nothing saved for retirement. All on the same income.

When we got married we made $23000 per year. My husband was a minister and thus categorized as “self-employed” so we had to pay self-employment tax on that. We also had to pay for our own health care. We had 2 cars, an apartment that cost $500 per month, and we still managed to pay off his $10,000 in full during the first year. It’s all in your mindset.

My husband often talks about how thankful he is to be free of the minimum wage mentality. He talks about how liberating it is.

sorry it should be $10,000 school loan.

This post hit me harder than anything else I’ve read on the simple dollar. I’m in a position where I’m making only a little more than minimum wage and it seems like a lifetime of poor decisions is coming home to roost. I believe that there is a way out and that’s why I started reading the simple dollar regularly.

This post inspired me to start a blog about coming back from the bottom. Maybe it will help me to stay on track and help others in the same situation.

If I apply for a job and don’t get hired, that’s not a mentality, it’s reality. I could even argue that the EMPLOYER has a “mentality” problem. Employers often don’t know quite what to make of a middle-aged college graduate with a menial minimum-wage job (or if they do, it’s not good), so their mental red risk-aversion flag pops up and they don’t want to take any chances on hiring me.

I was a single mother making $6 an hour. I had no car and no savings.

I found a job training center funded through govt monies. I started to make more money. I decided to go to the local community college to see what kind of aid I could recieve. I got a grant for $1500 a semester. I went to school, I studied and I sacrificed a lot.

I just graduated from nursing school in June.

I have a physical disability and a learning disability.

getting ahead is not supposed to be easy.

[…] been some discussion recently among moneybloggers about writing more for those who earn the minimum wage, and for those who face other financial difficulties. This is a good thing. But all this talk made […]

What I can’t understand is how badly people have reacted to the idea of ‘luck’ in this thread.
Sense: How is your bipolar sister with ADD and dyslexia not unlucky? Did she bring these conditions on herself by skipping church?
Brian: why wasn’t it unlucky for you to have to drop out of college ‘because of health problems’? Were your health problems caused by you?
Sarah: How is Walmart replacing all other employment opportunities in your town not unlucky?
Money Socket: why doesn’t luck cover being born with a disability, or not living in an area with good education?

Luck is those elements of life you’ve had no control over. People who reject this concept, or try to redefine it away, are usually rejecting the idea that their own success is partly due to their own good luck - You’re not blind/retarded/too disfigured for service jobs/some other disability? You live in a large city with millions of opportunities? Your parents encouraged you to study? Your wealthy friend lent you money for rent once? Luck. Learn the phrase ‘there but for the grace of God go I’.

So MW, you’re the victim of age discrimination. We get it. But you know what? Just about everybody’s been the victim of some sort of discrimination. For women and minorities, there’s racism and sexism, either overt or covert. For white men, there are quota-based affirmative action programs. For people with a lot of education in a specific field that they don’t want to work in anymore, there’s the risk of looking overqualified to do anything else. And so forth. Just about everybody has the cards stacked against them in some situations, but that doesn’t mean there aren’t other situations where they can succeed.

And then there’s the fact that sometimes people lose out on job opportunities not because the employers have anything in particular against them, but because there’s somebody else who’s a little bit better. You talk about applying for “a” job and not getting hired, as if that’s some kind of proof that your situation was hopeless. I applied once for a job and didn’t get hired. And then I applied for another job and didn’t get hired. And then I applied for about 20 more jobs and didn’t get hired. And then I applied for a job and got hired, and that was fine. I didn’t need 23 jobs - I only needed one. But by your metric, I guess I’m a failure 22 times over, and I should have given up a long time ago, because hey, who would ever want to hire somebody like me?

MW - I hear you.

The advice other people have offered is good. Take what you can use - and leave the rest.
I am also a member of Debtors Anonymous. Lots of people have been in your/our position. Maybe there is a DA meeting in your area.

Best of luck and keep posting.

Katy

MW,
not sure where you live, but most states have free continuing ed. through their community college systems and ROP. For free you can learn updated computer skills, office practices, welding, sewing, construction, culinary training, and many other fields.
These classes are free to anyone who shows up, and while they might not get you a top job in the field, they would get you started and once you got the job you could pursue additional education (if necessary) to advance.

While age discrimination is a reality in many places, it is also illegal. I would recommend looking at government jobs — they are much more careful not to discriminate — I personally have a friend who is 65 and just got a benefited government job that pays quite a bit more than minimum wage.

I have no idea what ROP is and I’m not aware of any available free training. (Unless you’re a druggie or ex-con or have some similar problem getting a job.) I look at job listings all the time and see zillions of jobs I’m not qualified for and can’t get, plus a lot of jobs I can’t get to because I don’t have a car.

Minimum Wage,

Becoming a teacher or substitute teacher is the best advice. You have a degree so you can do lateral entry immediately. But if for whatever reason you don’t want to do that…

Consider stalking your local Barnes and Noble for a job. They have unbelievable benefits (even for part-time workers) and pay a bit above minimum wage to start, with regular raises.

They do not just hire young people. I know that for a fact. They’re also perfectly fine with you having a second job. Several people who work at my local Barnes are middle/upper-middle aged with low-paying jobs who just want some extra income.

The best time to apply is the start of school terms since there are always a few students who quit or reduce their hours.

Oh yeah, and if they say “Yes we always accept new applications” then obviously they’re not hiring. Wait until they actually put a sign out for help.

“I have no idea what ROP is”

See, this is where a person with a different mindset would have responded “What’s ROP and how can I get it to benefit me?” I’m sure Rebecca would have been glad to explain.

A quick Google shows it stands for Regional Occupational Program. Sounds interesting!

Dawnry, I’d be very interested in hearing about your disability vis a vis your work. I got a chronic illness about 6 years ago, and I’m struggling with what that means for my financial future and my career future. And yes, I totally believe this was a stroke of bad luck! It sucks! But I’m trying to work around it. But I’ve had good luck too.

Hm, it might be interesting to have a support group of low wage earners who are struggling with various challenges. I know that sometimes I just need a fresh pair of eyes or a fresh brain to show me an obvious (but not to me) solution to a problem.

ROP sounds interesting, seems to be a California thing. Looking around I was reminded of something I’d like to do.

MW - You need treatment for depression. If you make less than 150% of the poverty wage, there is likely a clinic in your area that will treat you for free. (that’s $15K at this time)

Reading through your remarks, I can tell that you are probably suffering from clinical depression and you might benefit from Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. A CBT-trained therapist will help you reprogram yourself from your self-defeating thoughts. Quit shutting the door on the suggestions people are making and get your butt to the library and do some research on what it really takes to get a job and get hired. These days boomers are being welcomed back into the marketplace for their maturity and experience so stop complaining about your age. (Getting a teaching cert is relatively easy if you put in the hours. Many states are giving emergency credentials to get teachers into schools as long as the teacher gets a cert within a fixed timeframe.)

I highly recommend reading David Burns’ “Feeling Good: The New Mood Handbook”. You can probably find an older edition of it free at your local library. If you want, set up an Amazon wish list and I will buy it for you because I think you could really benefit from it.

I was going to write up a post slamming you for your bad attitude, but more than anything, I pity you for not seeking more help for finding a job or your mental condition. Surely you know someone who can loan you a suit for a job interview or print resumes? Or try a thrift shop as someone suggested. These days all you need are good shoes, khakis, dress shirt, tie and jacket for an interview. Rarely do people demand a full swanky suit anymore.

I am distressed by your particular comment that you won’t go back to data entry because I see that statement as a blanket sign of obstinacy that needs to be overcome. Why not do it if it gets the bills paid? You ought to separate a bad job experience from the job itself. If you know how to type efficiently and accurately you could get a job at a temp agency for more than minimum wage.

I read only three real obstacles for you:
1) No suit - remedied by borrowing.
2) No car - difficult but not impossible.
3) No optimism - fix your brain.

You are lucky to have a college degree at all. Leverage the fact you have into a job with anybody. Your age isn’t really an issue. There are old people working everywhere. You just have to keep trying.

Good luck. I am perfectly serious about offering you some help. Email me and I will definitely buy you that book. I got an Amazon gift cert as a prize from another PF blogger and I never used it so it will be my gift to you.

MW - oops. I didn’t mean to call you old. I actually don’t think “boomer” represents an age I really understand. I mean people who are 40 could be baby boomers. Heck, my boyfriend and his brothers are 36-38 and they are in the baby boom generation.

Debtors Anonymous has groups that address ‘Underearning’. DA is a wonderful support group. Contact them if there isn’t one in your area and they’ll tell you how to start a group.

Maybe I’m being too pessimistic, but I’ve been wondering, if I were to somehow shake off my “underearning” personality, wouldn’t age by now be a serious obstacle? I think there is a (chronological) point at which overcoming underearning won’t get you a better job.

Ok, I don’t think that there is anything wrong with getting help from the government every once in a while to get someone on their feet. What I don’t agree with are the lazy bums that are on medical and claim disability when they are fully capable to do something for themselves. There should be a limit to how long a person can receive free healthcare and foodstamps. Minimum wage shouldn’t be raised, that is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever heard of. By raising minimum wage it is not only lowering a persons incentive to exceed, it is also forcing some business owners to get rid of employees and cause the ones they still have to do double the work because they can’t afford to pay everyone.

no good deed goes unpunished. sigh. fine. give up. there’s no hope, right. gotcha.

I just read 103-comments of support and assistance and at every step Minimum Wage shoots it down.

I think every blog including this one, along with the posters, should “give up” on Minimum Wage, because he/she/it has given up himself/herself.

Until this guy/gal gets mental help and lays out the facts of what he/she makes and where he lives [I swear he lives in a rural European town] this is getting NO WHERE, despite all of the good intentions of seemingly THIRTY finance blogs.

I mean if 500-people on these blogs, that are financially savvy can’t figure out one person’s woes, who can? There are hundreds of millions of Americans and Minimum Wage would like to think he’s alone and has a unique problem. Its becoming a really bad joke.

I want a full in depth response from Minimum Wage about his expenses and what he actually makes and saves. This attention has reached a head. Minimum Wage simply doesn’t want ideas, doesn’t want help and wants to ruin everyone’s experiences with all of these high-quality, well thought out pf blogs. Enough is enough.

Zook,you are right. I give up. We offer him advice, ideas and *kindness* and he shoots us down.

His main problem is his rancid attitude.

Thanks for your post(s).

Hi Minimum Wage,

I keep forgetting to respond, you said “It seems like it shouldn’t be too hard to get something online started to make money.”

My friend sells Avon on eBay - people buy it through the auction, pay her, she orders the items (several auctions worth) and pays for them with the bidder’s money, and ships the products to the bidders when they arrive at her door.

I think it’s a great model (low startup $$, no inventory in your house, just a need to keep on top of orders and shipping, and shipping materials). It probably won’t double your income, but it can be a nice supplement. Avon might not be your thing, but the model works for other products (Pampered chef, selling local specialty products, magazine subscription resales).

On the other end of the spectrum is free-after-rebate items, which may not be up your alley - it does take the seed money to buy the items before you need them, which not everyone has. I am a fan of the Walgreen’s Easy Saver deals (you get an extra 10% back if you get the rebate as a gift card, which pays me for the taxes, stamp, and envelope). I do find the free-after-rebate things on eBay too, where sellers disclaim “you are bidding on my time spent gathering these items.” I prefer to keep things for my own use, like the shampoo and toothpaste this month.

Actually, a little supplemental income would go a long way - I would be pleasantly surprised but wouldn’t expect to double my income.

Right now - my work hours have been (involuntarily)

(since when does backspace submit a comment?)

Right now - my work hours have been (involuntarily) cut back a bit - I am netting $900 a month. Off the top of my head, I’ve got $450 for housing, $44 (no principal reduction) for student loans, $100 medical, and $250 to a ravenous creditor (who will execute garnishment on everything in sight if I don’t pay on time every month). Of course, that’s not including things like food, phone, and transportation. I’ve been selling off a modest coin collection, but now I’m out of coins to sell.

(okay, i guess i just got enough of the enter key along with the backspace key…but if enter submits a comment, why do you need a submit comment button?)

He wanted numbers, I gave hiom numbers. Now where did he go?

Minimum, I can totally sympathize with you, the present economy really can be very hard if not impossible to find a new niche in (I’m 54). I won’t go all thru my own personal job problems of the last 8 years, just take my word for it, I do understand what you are saying on many levels.

There is a lot of advice here to think about, maybe some of them are do-able for you, maybe not.

Don’t laugh, but when I was scraping the absolute bottom of the barrel, what helped me most, both financially and psychologically, was dumpster diving and curb shopping.

It is amazing what is considered trash in our great country, and you do not have to actually get inside a dumpster to benefit by it. Get a copy of John Hoffman’s book The Art And Science of Dumpster Diving from the library and give it a read. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. At the very least, you’ll have an afternoon of interesting reading.

And until things get