Comments on: Going Inside The Wall: What Are We Fighting For? http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/ Simple, applicable personal finance advice for the modern world Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:50:09 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: KellyKelly http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-2/#comment-145696 KellyKelly Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:43:04 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-145696 Love the post. And another thing about financial anorexics -- they can be awfully hard to be around. They can be quite the condescending party-poopers. Let's look at this issue from another angle -- instead of compulsive frugality, what about compulsive earning? Why not just work every spare hour of your life so you can pile up more and more anre more savings? I mean really, who can EVER have enough of a financial cushion for retirement or emergencies? But most people, even the frugalers, don't work extra jobs (once the debt is paid down or off). But if you are cutting off all channels of material pleasure (food, travel, entertainment, giving gifts) because you are compulsively denying yourself, why not just glutton up on the earning? Trade more hours of your life for more money. Ironically, anorexia/bulimia is a great metaphor for under-spending/overwork. Love the post. And another thing about financial anorexics — they can be awfully hard to be around. They can be quite the condescending party-poopers.

Let’s look at this issue from another angle — instead of compulsive frugality, what about compulsive earning? Why not just work every spare hour of your life so you can pile up more and more anre more savings?

I mean really, who can EVER have enough of a financial cushion for retirement or emergencies?

But most people, even the frugalers, don’t work extra jobs (once the debt is paid down or off).

But if you are cutting off all channels of material pleasure (food, travel, entertainment, giving gifts) because you are compulsively denying yourself, why not just glutton up on the earning? Trade more hours of your life for more money.

Ironically, anorexia/bulimia is a great metaphor for under-spending/overwork.

]]> By: Daisy http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-2/#comment-134112 Daisy Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:34:36 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-134112 Wow, Trent. You expressed all that in the most wonderful way. I myself am pretty thrifty but there are some things I won't give up either. :) Thanks for the post! Wow, Trent. You expressed all that in the most wonderful way.

I myself am pretty thrifty but there are some things I won’t give up either. :) Thanks for the post!

]]> By: Louise http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-2/#comment-131267 Louise Thu, 13 Dec 2007 07:34:15 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-131267 @Diane search this site for "horses" or "collectible horses." I doubt Trent gets much joy out of them, but his wife seems to love them. I have wondered about this topic myself, but whenever Trent brings up couples and finances, it seems like they just communicate so well and are so well-matched, that they don't ever fight over anything financial. I hope that doesn't sound bitter, it's not meant to be. Some people rarely argue, and Trent writes as if he and his wife fall into that category. @Diane
search this site for “horses” or “collectible horses.” I doubt Trent gets much joy out of them, but his wife seems to love them.

I have wondered about this topic myself, but whenever Trent brings up couples and finances, it seems like they just communicate so well and are so well-matched, that they don’t ever fight over anything financial. I hope that doesn’t sound bitter, it’s not meant to be. Some people rarely argue, and Trent writes as if he and his wife fall into that category.

]]> By: Diane Taylor http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-131168 Diane Taylor Thu, 13 Dec 2007 03:16:48 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-131168 Trent - Just wondered if you are equally open to your wife indulging in expenditures that give her pleasure? What if you consider her expenditures as "unnecessary" but yours "the spice of life"? Trent – Just wondered if you are equally open to your wife indulging in expenditures that give her pleasure? What if you consider her expenditures as “unnecessary” but yours “the spice of life”?

]]> By: Sandy http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130938 Sandy Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:21:04 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130938 I've found that to help "balance my budget" and my desire for really high quality food, is to choose some items in my shopping list generic. For example, items like 5-minute oatmeal, garbanzo beans, and sugar, I always buy generic. There is also a store in Ohio (Marc's) that actually has a great organic section, and has very cheap prices, so I've been shopping there for lots of items. That leaves room for the items that cannot be purchased generic, like the goat cheeses, etc.. One other way to cut costs on organics is to garden. "Square Foot Gardening" is my bible, and every year in March, as my rhubarb and Swiss Chard start peeking through the dirt, I dig out my copy and plan out where my tomatoes and green beans should go this year, and I've got a really small backyard patch, but (I counted last year) it saved $375 from being spent anywhere on food. Well, if you throw tax in, about $500, I guess! And the joy of cutting your own lettuce or picking your own peppers and serving them up is....priceless! I’ve found that to help “balance my budget” and my desire for really high quality food, is to choose some items in my shopping list generic. For example, items like 5-minute oatmeal, garbanzo beans, and sugar, I always buy generic. There is also a store in Ohio (Marc’s) that actually has a great organic section, and has very cheap prices, so I’ve been shopping there for lots of items.
That leaves room for the items that cannot be purchased generic, like the goat cheeses, etc..
One other way to cut costs on organics is to garden. “Square Foot Gardening” is my bible, and every year in March, as my rhubarb and Swiss Chard start peeking through the dirt, I dig out my copy and plan out where my tomatoes and green beans should go this year, and I’ve got a really small backyard patch, but (I counted last year) it saved $375 from being spent anywhere on food. Well, if you throw tax in, about $500, I guess!
And the joy of cutting your own lettuce or picking your own peppers and serving them up is….priceless!

]]> By: Carol http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130922 Carol Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:56:27 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130922 Loved this post. What you wrote about your food indulgences makes a lot of sense, and made me smile. The Vogue comments and the mention of the John Steinbeck books were also food for thought. Thanks! Loved this post. What you wrote about your food indulgences makes a lot of sense, and made me smile. The Vogue comments and the mention of the John Steinbeck books were also food for thought. Thanks!

]]> By: aeko http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130845 aeko Wed, 12 Dec 2007 16:15:59 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130845 I tried to lower the thermostat in order to save money, all it did was make me miserable and cold.running around the house with multiple layers of clothes is uncomfortable and nothing covers my nose which was cold all the time. And gloves in the house, out of the question. I am a senior citizen and at this stage in my life, I will be warm, will give up something else to save. I tried to lower the thermostat in order to save money, all it did was make me miserable and cold.running around the house with multiple layers of clothes is uncomfortable and nothing covers my nose which was cold all the time. And gloves in the house, out of the question. I am a senior citizen and at this stage in my life, I will be warm, will give up something else to save.

]]> By: Caeli http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130830 Caeli Wed, 12 Dec 2007 15:51:41 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130830 It's good to see someone acknowledge the addiction factor. Just because a habit is expensive and unhealthy doesn't mean that you can just stop and walk away. The cigarettes you mentioned are an excellent example. There are few (legal) habits that are more wasteful and expensive, but most people aren't doing it because they like to throw away their money on something that greatly reduces their quality of life. Like you said, she may have felt better physically, but emotionally it was worse. Substances such as nicotine are emotionally addictive because they change the chemical balance in your brain. People who already have physical issues with an imbalance of the mood enhancing chemicals that are normally produced by the brain are more likely to start smoking and less likely to be able to quit. Quitting smoking can sometimes cost more than it would to continue, especially when you factor in the possible relapse to other, more expensive illegal drugs in an attempt to self-medicate the emotional withdrawal symptoms, possible suicide attempts that could cause astronomical medical bills, or the cost of intensive, drawn-out therapy and expensive prescription medications and missed work time. Given the alternatives, it sounds a whole lot better to just let it go, doesn't it? It’s good to see someone acknowledge the addiction factor. Just because a habit is expensive and unhealthy doesn’t mean that you can just stop and walk away. The cigarettes you mentioned are an excellent example. There are few (legal) habits that are more wasteful and expensive, but most people aren’t doing it because they like to throw away their money on something that greatly reduces their quality of life. Like you said, she may have felt better physically, but emotionally it was worse. Substances such as nicotine are emotionally addictive because they change the chemical balance in your brain. People who already have physical issues with an imbalance of the mood enhancing chemicals that are normally produced by the brain are more likely to start smoking and less likely to be able to quit. Quitting smoking can sometimes cost more than it would to continue, especially when you factor in the possible relapse to other, more expensive illegal drugs in an attempt to self-medicate the emotional withdrawal symptoms, possible suicide attempts that could cause astronomical medical bills, or the cost of intensive, drawn-out therapy and expensive prescription medications and missed work time.

Given the alternatives, it sounds a whole lot better to just let it go, doesn’t it?

]]> By: Connie Brooks http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130786 Connie Brooks Wed, 12 Dec 2007 14:11:41 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130786 I love coffee like many of you love food - and normally "latte factor" articles have me rolling my eyes as I sip my $2 Starbucks' coffee and cream. However, there were some wonderful points made in this article, and the comments. 1) The lattes do add up over time. My personal solution was to switch from the $5 Mochas to the $2 coffee. I now have two coffees a week instead of five. I took the money I saved, added it to my Sharebuilder account and invested it in Starbucks stock. If I'm going to give them the equivalent of a car every ten years, then I can at least get a small return on my investment. You can laugh, but it makes me happy - Just like those morning lattes do! 2)From the article: "part of that area of safety that I’m trying to protect through financial prudence" This really touched me because it's exactly what I am trying to do. Carve out a small niche of protected, secure happiness for myself and my family. I have said for a long time that some things in life are worth paying for, things like air conditioning in summer,organic food, my high-speed internet connection and my coffee. These things are different for everyone and every family. I read a comment somewhere that said "The power of money is in the choices it allows you to make for your family." This is one of the truest things I have ever heard. As I move from financial irresponsibility to finally becoming a financial adult, I may give up those lattes. Right now though, they make me smile no matter how bad the day is, and that's worth the $2 to me. I love coffee like many of you love food – and normally “latte factor” articles have me rolling my eyes as I sip my $2 Starbucks’ coffee and cream. However, there were some wonderful points made in this article, and the comments.

1) The lattes do add up over time. My personal solution was to switch from the $5 Mochas to the $2 coffee. I now have two coffees a week instead of five. I took the money I saved, added it to my Sharebuilder account and invested it in Starbucks stock.

If I’m going to give them the equivalent of a car every ten years, then I can at least get a small return on my investment. You can laugh, but it makes me happy – Just like those morning lattes do!

2)From the article: “part of that area of safety that I’m trying to protect through financial prudence”

This really touched me because it’s exactly what I am trying to do. Carve out a small niche of protected, secure happiness for myself and my family.

I have said for a long time that some things in life are worth paying for, things like air conditioning in summer,organic food, my high-speed internet connection and my coffee. These things are different for everyone and every family.

I read a comment somewhere that said “The power of money is in the choices it allows you to make for your family.”

This is one of the truest things I have ever heard. As I move from financial irresponsibility to finally becoming a financial adult, I may give up those lattes. Right now though, they make me smile no matter how bad the day is, and that’s worth the $2 to me.

]]> By: Dylan http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130390 Dylan Wed, 12 Dec 2007 00:12:58 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130390 Prudently frugal, but selectively extravagant. What good is pinching every penny going to do long after one is out of the negative? Part of life is savoring the fruits of your labors. Use some, enjoy some and save the rest for later. Trent, you have figured it out. :) Prudently frugal, but selectively extravagant.

What good is pinching every penny going to do long after one is out of the negative? Part of life is savoring the fruits of your labors. Use some, enjoy some and save the rest for later.

Trent, you have figured it out. :)

]]> By: Jillian http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130325 Jillian Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:04:26 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130325 I'm with you on the food. And that tomato picture is so good I can almost taste it... I’m with you on the food. And that tomato picture is so good I can almost taste it…

]]> By: debtdieter http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130288 debtdieter Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:48:31 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130288 Terrific post Trent, this line really hit home for me: <i>That morning coffee and muffin just cost you a car.</i> This is exactly how I've managed to get myself into so much debt over the years. I was also struck by what you DO choose to spend your money on can provide an enjoyable life, and the key is to spend your money on things that add value to YOU. Terrific post Trent, this line really hit home for me:

That morning coffee and muffin just cost you a car.

This is exactly how I’ve managed to get myself into so much debt over the years.

I was also struck by what you DO choose to spend your money on can provide an enjoyable life, and the key is to spend your money on things that add value to YOU.

]]> By: paidtwice http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130240 paidtwice Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:33:57 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130240 I just wrote about my own struggle with this yesterday, hee hee. I cannot wait until I beat the debt monkey down and can start making choices within frugality instead of scrimping everywhere just to get by. :) Great post. I just wrote about my own struggle with this yesterday, hee hee.

I cannot wait until I beat the debt monkey down and can start making choices within frugality instead of scrimping everywhere just to get by. :)

Great post.

]]> By: Gayle http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130235 Gayle Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:23:05 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130235 I have recently been examining a particular spending pattern of my own. The place I work makes it easy to spend money in the cafeteria, gift shop, pharmacy, etc because all I have to do is swipe my name badge and it is deducted from my paycheck. Easy right? The grand total for this year is $1200+. That does not include the pop out of the machine which adds another $150. This latte factor is out of control for me. Therefore I am taking some steps to at least reduce it if not eliminate it. First to go is the 1.25 each shift for a pop out of the machine. The price was recently raised. Eventually I hope to eliminate it but for now i am going to bring in a 99 cent 2 liter from home which lasts 2 days. This will also eliminate the pop bought in the cafeteria. Next looking at the pharmacy purchases I have switched my prescriptions to the mail order pharmacy so I will get 90 days for one copay instead of 30. The biggest struggle will be limiting cafeterial purchases. I do have to eat and by the time I get to the third 12 hour shift I am too tired to think about brown bagging it. While I haven't settled on a dollar goal I want to considerably reduce this outlay. One way of looking at it would be to call it one fourth of an IRA contribution. I have recently been examining a particular spending pattern of my own. The place I work makes it easy to spend money in the cafeteria, gift shop, pharmacy, etc because all I have to do is swipe my name badge and it is deducted from my paycheck. Easy right?

The grand total for this year is $1200+. That does not include the pop out of the machine which adds another $150.

This latte factor is out of control for me. Therefore I am taking some steps to at least reduce it if not eliminate it. First to go is the 1.25 each shift for a pop out of the machine. The price was recently raised. Eventually I hope to eliminate it but for now i am going to bring in a 99 cent 2 liter from home which lasts 2 days. This will also eliminate the pop bought in the cafeteria.

Next looking at the pharmacy purchases I have switched my prescriptions to the mail order pharmacy so I will get 90 days for one copay instead of 30.

The biggest struggle will be limiting cafeterial purchases. I do have to eat and by the time I get to the third 12 hour shift I am too tired to think about brown bagging it.

While I haven’t settled on a dollar goal I want to considerably reduce this outlay. One way of looking at it would be to call it one fourth of an IRA contribution.

]]> By: Bouncing Betty http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130233 Bouncing Betty Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:20:05 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130233 Great post! I also think it's bad for the soul to give up everything that makes you happy. Food, Lattes, the weekly movie, what ever. I don't advocate blowing a budget to have a cup of coffee or a nice bottle of wine, but we all need something in our lives that makes us feel good. I'm willing to sacrifice a lot to get back on track in my life (and I have to, no doubt about that. I have so few vices left, that a good bottle of wine with my weekend meal really makes me happy and soothes my soul. Great post! I also think it’s bad for the soul to give up everything that makes you happy. Food, Lattes, the weekly movie, what ever. I don’t advocate blowing a budget to have a cup of coffee or a nice bottle of wine, but we all need something in our lives that makes us feel good. I’m willing to sacrifice a lot to get back on track in my life (and I have to, no doubt about that. I have so few vices left, that a good bottle of wine with my weekend meal really makes me happy and soothes my soul.

]]> By: jaushwa http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130218 jaushwa Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:55:07 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130218 what a great piece. an example of mine is automobiles. I'm considering buying a used BMW this December right after Christmas. This decision comes after maxing out my retirement accounts and meeting my savings goals. I'm getting a BMW because no other car drives quite like it. I used to own a new one but sold it to pay off my student loans. Now (years later) I realize what I really want to spend my extra money on. what a great piece.
an example of mine is automobiles. I’m considering buying a used BMW this December right after Christmas. This decision comes after maxing out my retirement accounts and meeting my savings goals.
I’m getting a BMW because no other car drives quite like it. I used to own a new one but sold it to pay off my student loans. Now (years later) I realize what I really want to spend my extra money on.

]]> By: countdrak http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130215 countdrak Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:50:46 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130215 I think its important to balance the two , if you enjoy eating out -- eat out once a week instead of 5 times a week. Enjoy the latte once a week , or buy new shoes once a month. The problem is not the latte the problem is over-indulgence. Great post! I think its important to balance the two , if you enjoy eating out — eat out once a week instead of 5 times a week. Enjoy the latte once a week , or buy new shoes once a month.

The problem is not the latte the problem is over-indulgence.

Great post!

]]> By: partgypsy http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130198 partgypsy Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:22:23 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130198 This blog is very relevant to our spending habits. Tracking our spending, while our expenses are lower than average in a number of areas (such as mortgage, no cell phone) we regularly spend 20-30% of our income on food (groceries and eating out). This is higher than the 11% the average american spends, but close to the average percent Europeans spend, which I thought was interesting. This blog is very relevant to our spending habits. Tracking our spending, while our expenses are lower than average in a number of areas (such as mortgage, no cell phone) we regularly spend 20-30% of our income on food (groceries and eating out). This is higher than the 11% the average american spends, but close to the average percent Europeans spend, which I thought was interesting.

]]> By: Deena http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130195 Deena Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:21:34 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130195 Great post. I'm a fellow foodie...living with someone who eats just to live. It's killer to discuss the grocery budget... Great post. I’m a fellow foodie…living with someone who eats just to live. It’s killer to discuss the grocery budget…

]]> By: Fecundity http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/comment-page-1/#comment-130194 Fecundity Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:17:09 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2007/12/11/going-inside-the-wall-what-are-we-fighting-for/#comment-130194 I agree wholeheartedly. Frugality is a tool that lets you save money on things that are less important to you, so you can prioritize those that are moreso. Buying three cheap sweaters that are (presumably) unattractive and unwarm is not frugal, it's wasteful (great story, Kay). Generally I'm pretty good at finding bargins on the stuff we need. However, I do spend significant money on good wine, port and cheese for me, and good scotch for Hubby. I love a hunk of Cambozola with a glass of 10 year old tawny Taylor Fladgate. Giving both of those up is probably the hardest part of my pregnancy. Well, that and the nausea. At least all I've experienced so far cravings-wise is a desire for raman noodles. Seems my irrational urges are at least frugal. I agree wholeheartedly. Frugality is a tool that lets you save money on things that are less important to you, so you can prioritize those that are moreso. Buying three cheap sweaters that are (presumably) unattractive and unwarm is not frugal, it’s wasteful (great story, Kay).

Generally I’m pretty good at finding bargins on the stuff we need. However, I do spend significant money on good wine, port and cheese for me, and good scotch for Hubby. I love a hunk of Cambozola with a glass of 10 year old tawny Taylor Fladgate. Giving both of those up is probably the hardest part of my pregnancy. Well, that and the nausea.

At least all I’ve experienced so far cravings-wise is a desire for raman noodles. Seems my irrational urges are at least frugal.

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