Comments on: Thoughts on Children and Rewards for Normal Behavior http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/ Simple, applicable personal finance advice for the modern world Sun, 22 Nov 2009 01:08:33 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Gin http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-2/#comment-625763 Gin Wed, 15 Apr 2009 01:52:16 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-625763 I agree with you in part. I do not believe in rewarding kids for expected behaviors. Heck, we don't even tie the kids' allowance to chores; chores are expected from all members of our family as part of living in a community. However, my parents never ever rewarded us for expected behaviors either but I did very much the same as you did when I was first out on my own...I rewarded myself for all kinds of things *because* my parents never did. I agree with you in part. I do not believe in rewarding kids for expected behaviors. Heck, we don’t even tie the kids’ allowance to chores; chores are expected from all members of our family as part of living in a community. However, my parents never ever rewarded us for expected behaviors either but I did very much the same as you did when I was first out on my own…I rewarded myself for all kinds of things *because* my parents never did.

]]> By: Gail http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-2/#comment-393409 Gail Tue, 14 Oct 2008 04:25:11 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-393409 I taught my children that responsibilities and privileges go hand in hand. Using monopoly money I had them buy privileges that they earned. It involved attitudes and well as deeds. Privileges are not something a child deserves but rather something a parent gives out of love. Many children today, however, expect and demand their privileges . . . pouting, whining, making sarcastic remarks if they don't get what they want. My system worked well and today my children are well adjusted, self employed, responsible members of society. I recently decided to market my behavior program in order to help other parents whose children have behavior problems. It's not bribery (my ex-husband called it the same thing). It's taking responsibility for attitudes and actions and learning the consequences of such. I taught my children that responsibilities and privileges go hand in hand. Using monopoly money I had them buy privileges that they earned. It involved attitudes and well as deeds. Privileges are not something a child deserves but rather something a parent gives out of love. Many children today, however, expect and demand their privileges . . . pouting, whining, making sarcastic remarks if they don’t get what they want. My system worked well and today my children are well adjusted, self employed, responsible members of society. I recently decided to market my behavior program in order to help other parents whose children have behavior problems. It’s not bribery (my ex-husband called it the same thing). It’s taking responsibility for attitudes and actions and learning the consequences of such.

]]> By: Aggie http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-2/#comment-389637 Aggie Thu, 09 Oct 2008 02:28:46 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-389637 As a school teacher, I'm pretty unhappy with our schools new "Positive Behavior Support" plan. We have to give out little tickets for good behavior. When they collect up enough of them, they can turn them in for prizes. It's not for good grades, good citizenship, good overall behavior, but for little things that children should know already. I'd rather call it "Bribery Program". It rewards the kids who already know how to say "please" and "thank you" and gets the others to join in through greed. On the other side of that coin, I have about 15 students (out of 370) who are so psychologically messed up that no amount of bribery is ever going to help them become average citizens. They are constantly in trouble, constantly seeking attention and constantly in the office. These children need more than a reward ticket-- they need stability and consistency. So bravo Trent for bringing this up. Personal responsibility and respect is much like personal finance-- it's taught at an early age. On a second note: I don't give out allowances, but I do reward good grades. I feel that my own children should treat school like a job. They go, they do their task well enough, they get paid. The money they make from gradecards then becomes the money they make their learning mistakes on. My boys are now very frugal with this money, often saving it for months before making decisions with it. They know they wont get more for another 6 weeks, so they spend a lot of time and effort in planning. -Aggie As a school teacher, I’m pretty unhappy with our schools new “Positive Behavior Support” plan. We have to give out little tickets for good behavior. When they collect up enough of them, they can turn them in for prizes. It’s not for good grades, good citizenship, good overall behavior, but for little things that children should know already.

I’d rather call it “Bribery Program”. It rewards the kids who already know how to say “please” and “thank you” and gets the others to join in through greed.

On the other side of that coin, I have about 15 students (out of 370) who are so psychologically messed up that no amount of bribery is ever going to help them become average citizens. They are constantly in trouble, constantly seeking attention and constantly in the office. These children need more than a reward ticket– they need stability and consistency.

So bravo Trent for bringing this up. Personal responsibility and respect is much like personal finance– it’s taught at an early age.

On a second note: I don’t give out allowances, but I do reward good grades. I feel that my own children should treat school like a job. They go, they do their task well enough, they get paid. The money they make from gradecards then becomes the money they make their learning mistakes on. My boys are now very frugal with this money, often saving it for months before making decisions with it. They know they wont get more for another 6 weeks, so they spend a lot of time and effort in planning.

-Aggie

]]> By: Dreamybee http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-2/#comment-384707 Dreamybee Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:10:33 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-384707 Wow, thanks for providing a whole new twist on this issue. Everybody talks about how rewarding normal behavior or bribing kids to be good will result in bratty, entitled kids, but I've never heard anyone talk about how that carried over into their adult financial lives. I would have never thought of that! Wow, thanks for providing a whole new twist on this issue. Everybody talks about how rewarding normal behavior or bribing kids to be good will result in bratty, entitled kids, but I’ve never heard anyone talk about how that carried over into their adult financial lives. I would have never thought of that!

]]> By: Sharon http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-2/#comment-383792 Sharon Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:28:26 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383792 If you read Trent's post, I don't see one critical remark about the other parent or child. He simply states what he and his son saw, and how he and his son responded to it. He talks about the dangers of rewards for ordinary, expected behavior. IF he had bought his own son a toy for a haircut, that is what he would have been doing, and he avoided it, remembering lessons from his own childhood. I don't see where he said a single critical word about the other parent, maybe his own parents, but not that one. If you read Trent’s post, I don’t see one critical remark about the other parent or child. He simply states what he and his son saw, and how he and his son responded to it. He talks about the dangers of rewards for ordinary, expected behavior. IF he had bought his own son a toy for a haircut, that is what he would have been doing, and he avoided it, remembering lessons from his own childhood. I don’t see where he said a single critical word about the other parent, maybe his own parents, but not that one.

]]> By: E http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-2/#comment-383692 E Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:19:01 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383692 I have often talked about this with my brother, who is significantly younger than me. When I was a toddler, my parents had very little money but my mom was only working part time, and I suspect her parenting style was more like Trent's. By the time my brother was a toddler, my mom was in law school, and my dad was earning a lot more but traveling a lot. My brother learned at a very early age that if he whined enough, he could get what he wanted. Sometimes it took 30 minutes of whining, but he'd hold out and my mom would give in just to get him to shut up. I left home when he was 10, but I'm pretty sure the dynamic continued through high school. He is now in his late 20s and just starting to realize that he can't just get what he wants when he wants it, when he has to pay for it all. I have often talked about this with my brother, who is significantly younger than me. When I was a toddler, my parents had very little money but my mom was only working part time, and I suspect her parenting style was more like Trent’s. By the time my brother was a toddler, my mom was in law school, and my dad was earning a lot more but traveling a lot. My brother learned at a very early age that if he whined enough, he could get what he wanted. Sometimes it took 30 minutes of whining, but he’d hold out and my mom would give in just to get him to shut up. I left home when he was 10, but I’m pretty sure the dynamic continued through high school. He is now in his late 20s and just starting to realize that he can’t just get what he wants when he wants it, when he has to pay for it all.

]]> By: Sarah http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-2/#comment-383530 Sarah Tue, 30 Sep 2008 05:16:53 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383530 Carmen--my point is simply that since you don't know, you shouldn't be so quick to judge. I get impatient with ill-behaved kids in public, too, but I try to keep in mind (not always successfully) the kind of shame and sadness a parent of a kid with a behavioral disorder must have when she gets the hateful, superior looks directed at her whenever she gathers the energy to try to do normal chores in public. Don't you have enough people in your life who you know are doing nasty things to spend that on, rather than hating on a stranger you know only through an anecdote? Carmen–my point is simply that since you don’t know, you shouldn’t be so quick to judge. I get impatient with ill-behaved kids in public, too, but I try to keep in mind (not always successfully) the kind of shame and sadness a parent of a kid with a behavioral disorder must have when she gets the hateful, superior looks directed at her whenever she gathers the energy to try to do normal chores in public. Don’t you have enough people in your life who you know are doing nasty things to spend that on, rather than hating on a stranger you know only through an anecdote?

]]> By: Susan http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-1/#comment-383448 Susan Tue, 30 Sep 2008 02:30:34 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383448 My parents generally didn't reward bad or good behavior with toys, mainly b/c we didn't have the means to do so. On the rare occasion I did get a toy after a melt down, I remember feeling very guilty and ashamed and never wanting to act that way again. In that sense, I'm actually glad my parents did reward my bad behavior on one or two occasions. Though I was pretty sensitive, so not sure if it applies to most kids. I also remember cherishing a Papa Smurf doll I got as a reward for not crying during my allergy shots. I got them 2x a week and always cried, always wishing I could brave up to get that toy. I'm very thankful my Mom bought that for me the day I stopped my tears, it was kind of a sign to me of growing up and working through a difficult situation I would deal with for another decade. But my parents also taught me the value of a dollar and praised my efforts and ingenuity when I saved up my money to buy my own toys. They were very wise in how they rewarded us and taught us about finances. My parents generally didn’t reward bad or good behavior with toys, mainly b/c we didn’t have the means to do so. On the rare occasion I did get a toy after a melt down, I remember feeling very guilty and ashamed and never wanting to act that way again. In that sense, I’m actually glad my parents did reward my bad behavior on one or two occasions. Though I was pretty sensitive, so not sure if it applies to most kids.

I also remember cherishing a Papa Smurf doll I got as a reward for not crying during my allergy shots. I got them 2x a week and always cried, always wishing I could brave up to get that toy. I’m very thankful my Mom bought that for me the day I stopped my tears, it was kind of a sign to me of growing up and working through a difficult situation I would deal with for another decade.

But my parents also taught me the value of a dollar and praised my efforts and ingenuity when I saved up my money to buy my own toys. They were very wise in how they rewarded us and taught us about finances.

]]> By: greenfamily http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-1/#comment-383434 greenfamily Tue, 30 Sep 2008 02:11:22 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383434 This is an excellent post and I am so appreciative of the positive feedback in the responses! When I found out I was pregnant with my 2nd child, I decided to start potty-training my 2 year old son. This was much to the chagrin of many, many "helpful" parents who warned me of imminent failure because (apparently) boys are not physiologically capable of using the potty before the age of 3. My response? "That is why it's called potty-TRAINING." And guess what? My son was completely potty-trained within a couple months, without rewards like candy or punishment like time-out. It was exactly as so many of the parents here responded: children are VERY eager to please and they LOVE hugs, kisses, high-fives, and verbal praise. I was sorely tempted to resort to candy rewards, even raisins like my mom used to do, but I didn't do that because the bottom line remains: potty training is an essential part of becoming a big boy, and I didn't want to encourage his expectations of being rewarded for what is normally expected behavior. I have to agree with the person who said it is possible but highly unlikely that the 6-7 year old child was autistic or had another problem which contributed to the "rewards" method of behavior management. Unfortunately it does seem to be the way many parents are managing their children these days. I have been a nanny for over 14 years and my experience attests to this trend. I applaud Trent for taking the time to sit down and talk to his son-- that habit will reap huge benefits in the future relationship with his son! This is an excellent post and I am so appreciative of the positive feedback in the responses!

When I found out I was pregnant with my 2nd child, I decided to start potty-training my 2 year old son. This was much to the chagrin of many, many “helpful” parents who warned me of imminent failure because (apparently) boys are not physiologically capable of using the potty before the age of 3.

My response? “That is why it’s called potty-TRAINING.”

And guess what? My son was completely potty-trained within a couple months, without rewards like candy or punishment like time-out. It was exactly as so many of the parents here responded: children are VERY eager to please and they LOVE hugs, kisses, high-fives, and verbal praise. I was sorely tempted to resort to candy rewards, even raisins like my mom used to do, but I didn’t do that because the bottom line remains: potty training is an essential part of becoming a big boy, and I didn’t want to encourage his expectations of being rewarded for what is normally expected behavior.

I have to agree with the person who said it is possible but highly unlikely that the 6-7 year old child was autistic or had another problem which contributed to the “rewards” method of behavior management. Unfortunately it does seem to be the way many parents are managing their children these days. I have been a nanny for over 14 years and my experience attests to this trend. I applaud Trent for taking the time to sit down and talk to his son– that habit will reap huge benefits in the future relationship with his son!

]]> By: LisaS http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-1/#comment-383382 LisaS Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:32:21 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383382 I so agree. Children should definitely be praised for good behavior under difficult circumstances, but giving a material reward for meeting basic expectations breeds mercenaries who think they have you over a barrel. I so agree. Children should definitely be praised for good behavior under difficult circumstances, but giving a material reward for meeting basic expectations breeds mercenaries who think they have you over a barrel.

]]> By: DannaTX http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-1/#comment-383306 DannaTX Mon, 29 Sep 2008 22:16:00 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383306 I never received an allowance and I did a lot of chores. My father always said "You get paid everytime you put your feet under the table!" :) I never received an allowance and I did a lot of chores. My father always said “You get paid everytime you put your feet under the table!” :)

]]> By: Carmen http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-1/#comment-383266 Carmen Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:12:14 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383266 @ Sarah - valid point, but sadly highly unlikely. Good post Trent, I agree with you. Although I do think kids of 6/7 are much much harder to handle than 2/3 year olds. Even though they understand so much more. Sorry. (School tiredness?!) My 8 year old daughter had her first filling at the dentist today. Very unfortunate since her dental hygiene is great, yet thankfully it was small and in a milk tooth, hence no need for any local anaesthetic! She was so nervous beforehand she said she felt sick. And looked it but I didn't tell her that. I have never seen her so worried about anything before. But she kept a (nervous) smile on her face the whole time. And I was extremely proud of her attitude. I gave her a big hug before she got into the dentist chair, some verbal praise afterwards and a 10p lolly-pop for the 30 minute drive home. Not ideal since it's food and sugar based, but a small gesture that she really appreciated. :) @ Sarah – valid point, but sadly highly unlikely.

Good post Trent, I agree with you. Although I do think kids of 6/7 are much much harder to handle than 2/3 year olds. Even though they understand so much more. Sorry. (School tiredness?!)

My 8 year old daughter had her first filling at the dentist today. Very unfortunate since her dental hygiene is great, yet thankfully it was small and in a milk tooth, hence no need for any local anaesthetic! She was so nervous beforehand she said she felt sick. And looked it but I didn’t tell her that. I have never seen her so worried about anything before. But she kept a (nervous) smile on her face the whole time. And I was extremely proud of her attitude. I gave her a big hug before she got into the dentist chair, some verbal praise afterwards and a 10p lolly-pop for the 30 minute drive home. Not ideal since it’s food and sugar based, but a small gesture that she really appreciated. :)

]]> By: Sarah http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-1/#comment-383250 Sarah Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:29:25 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383250 I think people can be too quick to judge based on one instance. For example, many autistic kids have a terrible time with haircuts. To be able to sit through one is not "normal" behavior, and, as #22 notes, rewards for meeting challenges can be very motivating. So maybe the kid you saw was autistic and the parents were practicing CBT, Trent. I think people can be too quick to judge based on one instance. For example, many autistic kids have a terrible time with haircuts. To be able to sit through one is not “normal” behavior, and, as #22 notes, rewards for meeting challenges can be very motivating. So maybe the kid you saw was autistic and the parents were practicing CBT, Trent.

]]> By: kirstie http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-1/#comment-383224 kirstie Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:25:43 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383224 I agree with cynthia. Don't judge unless you can be sure that you have walked in those shoes. Meanwhile, I think the writing of Alfie Kohn ("Punished by Rewards") is very interesting. I agree with cynthia. Don’t judge unless you can be sure that you have walked in those shoes.

Meanwhile, I think the writing of Alfie Kohn (”Punished by Rewards”) is very interesting.

]]> By: Maha http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-1/#comment-383203 Maha Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:28:16 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383203 I find that rewarding good behavior that I expect with praise begets good behavior. Kids want your approval, and if you reward with "good job" and hugs and telling them how proud you are of their behavior, they're more apt to continue it. I especially do it if it's a behavior that's foreign to them. I find that rewarding good behavior that I expect with praise begets good behavior. Kids want your approval, and if you reward with “good job” and hugs and telling them how proud you are of their behavior, they’re more apt to continue it. I especially do it if it’s a behavior that’s foreign to them.

]]> By: cynthia http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-1/#comment-383192 cynthia Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:08:49 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383192 being a parent is challenging. it is hard to know what is really happening by judging a moment in time. maybe the child has challenges that we don't know about and this is the best way for the parent to manage them. maybe something traumatic just happened. i got divorced and for the next year my child acted up, had nightmares and was afraid to leave them. this is normal in that situation. anyway, overall i agree with some of what you say, but i wouldn't want to be so negatively judged as a parent by someone who only observed me for a short time. being a parent is challenging. it is hard to know what is really happening by judging a moment in time. maybe the child has challenges that we don’t know about and this is the best way for the parent to manage them. maybe something traumatic just happened. i got divorced and for the next year my child acted up, had nightmares and was afraid to leave them. this is normal in that situation. anyway, overall i agree with some of what you say, but i wouldn’t want to be so negatively judged as a parent by someone who only observed me for a short time.

]]> By: Ellen http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-1/#comment-383111 Ellen Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:23:27 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383111 I forgot-the best book that I have found is "Children the Challenge", it follows this way of thinking and give example of behavior and ways to deal with. It is a must read. I forgot-the best book that I have found is “Children the Challenge”, it follows this way of thinking and give example of behavior and ways to deal with. It is a must read.

]]> By: Ellen http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-1/#comment-383106 Ellen Mon, 29 Sep 2008 15:18:51 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383106 I see my family constantly rewarding their kids to behave or get them to do what they want. So why are they such brats? Teaching your children to be selfish and only working with people if THEY get something out of it does not help them to be a proper person as they get older. What kind of employee/employer, husband/wife, mother/father, etc. will they be when they have been taught to live so selfishly. I see my family constantly rewarding their kids to behave or get them to do what they want. So why are they such brats? Teaching your children to be selfish and only working with people if THEY get something out of it does not help them to be a proper person as they get older.

What kind of employee/employer, husband/wife, mother/father, etc. will they be when they have been taught to live so selfishly.

]]> By: toaduni44 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-1/#comment-383055 toaduni44 Mon, 29 Sep 2008 14:12:53 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383055 Next time, use peanut butter to get the chewing gum out of his hair. Seriously. Next time, use peanut butter to get the chewing gum out of his hair. Seriously.

]]> By: Caroline http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/comment-page-1/#comment-383040 Caroline Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:54:37 +0000 http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/09/28/thoughts-on-children-and-rewards-for-normal-behavior/#comment-383040 And I just read a friend's blog where she said she decided to take her 1 year old to toys'r'us because she felt bad about getting her vaccinated. And I just read a friend’s blog where she said she decided to take her 1 year old to toys’r'us because she felt bad about getting her vaccinated.

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