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	<title>Comments on: Review: Millionaire by Thirty</title>
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	<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/</link>
	<description>Simple, applicable personal finance advice for the modern world</description>
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		<title>By: JonFrance</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/comment-page-1/#comment-392786</link>
		<dc:creator>JonFrance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 14:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/#comment-392786</guid>
		<description>@Nate--I hope you will read along with the Intelligent Investor articles.  Graham and Zweig address (and debunk) exactly the argument that you&#039;re making.  True, most multi-millionaires got where they are by taking risks and avoiding diversification.  They show the numbers in the book, though, of how many of them ten or twenty years later are no longer multi-millionaires--even though they had been so rich that they could&#039;ve stayed on the list just by keeping their money in a 3% savings account.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Nate&#8211;I hope you will read along with the Intelligent Investor articles.  Graham and Zweig address (and debunk) exactly the argument that you&#8217;re making.  True, most multi-millionaires got where they are by taking risks and avoiding diversification.  They show the numbers in the book, though, of how many of them ten or twenty years later are no longer multi-millionaires&#8211;even though they had been so rich that they could&#8217;ve stayed on the list just by keeping their money in a 3% savings account.</p>
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		<title>By: Georgia</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/comment-page-1/#comment-391367</link>
		<dc:creator>Georgia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Oct 2008 15:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/#comment-391367</guid>
		<description>This may be late, Trent, but I felt the need to add my 2 cents worth.  In talking about the % to save I have a good tale and a sad tale.  But it worked for me.

I did not start saving in a 403b until I was around 50. I started small and was saving $90 a month in a couple of years.  We were tight financially (very, very deep in cc debt) and I felt we were unable to do more.

However, it came time for a raise and I realized that it would only drop my salary about $5-6 if I put my entire raise into the fund.  About 5 years later, I went to put my raise into it and I was told I could not put all of it, only $11.  I was flabbergasted.  I thought I could not save and here I was putting 25% of my salary (the maximum) into the 403b, paying off my bills, and still doing a little enjoying of life.

In the end, in the 17 years I worked for the state, I put $50k of my own money into my 403b, but we paid off all our debt, took a trip a year to see family, and did much needed work on our home.  Way, way too late I learned how easy it is to save, especially when you don&#039;t see it and live within what you actually earn.

Thanks for all the good advice.  Even at 71 I still need to learn and am still saving because I know that even though I am comfortable at the moment, hard times could still come and I intend to live to be 123, so will need it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This may be late, Trent, but I felt the need to add my 2 cents worth.  In talking about the % to save I have a good tale and a sad tale.  But it worked for me.</p>
<p>I did not start saving in a 403b until I was around 50. I started small and was saving $90 a month in a couple of years.  We were tight financially (very, very deep in cc debt) and I felt we were unable to do more.</p>
<p>However, it came time for a raise and I realized that it would only drop my salary about $5-6 if I put my entire raise into the fund.  About 5 years later, I went to put my raise into it and I was told I could not put all of it, only $11.  I was flabbergasted.  I thought I could not save and here I was putting 25% of my salary (the maximum) into the 403b, paying off my bills, and still doing a little enjoying of life.</p>
<p>In the end, in the 17 years I worked for the state, I put $50k of my own money into my 403b, but we paid off all our debt, took a trip a year to see family, and did much needed work on our home.  Way, way too late I learned how easy it is to save, especially when you don&#8217;t see it and live within what you actually earn.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the good advice.  Even at 71 I still need to learn and am still saving because I know that even though I am comfortable at the moment, hard times could still come and I intend to live to be 123, so will need it.</p>
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		<title>By: Roger</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/comment-page-1/#comment-388580</link>
		<dc:creator>Roger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 14:20:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/#comment-388580</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the great review, Trent.  I recall skimming through this book when I first started to look into investing.  It struck me as way, WAY too gimmicky at the time, and I&#039;m glad to see my first impressions were justified.  

I don&#039;t know what is the worst: that they recommended a highly risky method of making money (and not even terribly smart risks, as other commentators have mentioned), that these risks were ignored and this plan portrayed as risk-free, or the fact that, given a publication date of April 2008, the authors should clearly have realized that their plan was no longer feasible, if it ever was.  Unbelievable, in any event.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the great review, Trent.  I recall skimming through this book when I first started to look into investing.  It struck me as way, WAY too gimmicky at the time, and I&#8217;m glad to see my first impressions were justified.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what is the worst: that they recommended a highly risky method of making money (and not even terribly smart risks, as other commentators have mentioned), that these risks were ignored and this plan portrayed as risk-free, or the fact that, given a publication date of April 2008, the authors should clearly have realized that their plan was no longer feasible, if it ever was.  Unbelievable, in any event.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark L</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/comment-page-1/#comment-388272</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 03:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/#comment-388272</guid>
		<description>VULs are a total rip-off for 99% of the population.  I made the mistake of being in one for the last several years and learned this first hand.  The fees are such that you aren&#039;t really getting ahead in the market.   When I finally took a close look at my returns I realized that I could have gotten 3-4x the insurance buying term, and that I could get better returns in the market by investing in mutual funds straight out.  The fees in the VUL take that much out. 

When do VULs make sense?  When you have a sustained annual household income of over $250,000 and are looking for a tax shelter.  If you are making that much money, your shelters are mostly taken away.  At that point the VUL might be good.

For most people, though, they won&#039;t ever be at a point where they are getting that kind of money.  The 401(k) and Roth IRAs and term insurance offer better plans without losing a lot of money in whole life fees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>VULs are a total rip-off for 99% of the population.  I made the mistake of being in one for the last several years and learned this first hand.  The fees are such that you aren&#8217;t really getting ahead in the market.   When I finally took a close look at my returns I realized that I could have gotten 3-4x the insurance buying term, and that I could get better returns in the market by investing in mutual funds straight out.  The fees in the VUL take that much out. </p>
<p>When do VULs make sense?  When you have a sustained annual household income of over $250,000 and are looking for a tax shelter.  If you are making that much money, your shelters are mostly taken away.  At that point the VUL might be good.</p>
<p>For most people, though, they won&#8217;t ever be at a point where they are getting that kind of money.  The 401(k) and Roth IRAs and term insurance offer better plans without losing a lot of money in whole life fees.</p>
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		<title>By: Bettsi</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/comment-page-1/#comment-388271</link>
		<dc:creator>Bettsi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 03:30:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/#comment-388271</guid>
		<description>Well, I&#039;m well past thirty, but I might have been tempted anyway by that title!  Thanks for the save!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, I&#8217;m well past thirty, but I might have been tempted anyway by that title!  Thanks for the save!</p>
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		<title>By: Sara</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/comment-page-1/#comment-388244</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 02:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/#comment-388244</guid>
		<description>Well, like I said, everybody has different situations, and maybe 5% is a stretch for some people.  I just think that if you get used to saving 5%, it would be difficult to decrease your standard of living enough to save, say, 10%, but if you tried to save 10% in the first place and set your standard of living accordingly, you might not even miss that extra 5%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, like I said, everybody has different situations, and maybe 5% is a stretch for some people.  I just think that if you get used to saving 5%, it would be difficult to decrease your standard of living enough to save, say, 10%, but if you tried to save 10% in the first place and set your standard of living accordingly, you might not even miss that extra 5%.</p>
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		<title>By: Trent</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/comment-page-1/#comment-388239</link>
		<dc:creator>Trent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 02:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/#comment-388239</guid>
		<description>&quot;I have to disagree with you about starting by saving 5% of your income and increasing it until it starts to get painful.&quot;

What if your job is minimum wage, Sara?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I have to disagree with you about starting by saving 5% of your income and increasing it until it starts to get painful.&#8221;</p>
<p>What if your job is minimum wage, Sara?</p>
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		<title>By: Sara</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/comment-page-1/#comment-388237</link>
		<dc:creator>Sara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 02:45:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/#comment-388237</guid>
		<description>I have to disagree with you about starting by saving 5% of your income and increasing it until it starts to get painful.  When I got my first job after college, my older brother helped me develop a budget.  I was planning to put 6% into my 401(k) because that&#039;s how much the company matches, but my brother encouraged me to put in 20%.  He promised that if I didn&#039;t see it, I&#039;d never miss it, and he was right.  I haven&#039;t missed it in the 3 years since I started the job, because I budgeted for living without it.

I realize that not everyone is in a position to save 20%, but I think it&#039;s far easier to start by saving more than you think you can than to try to increase your savings percentage over time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have to disagree with you about starting by saving 5% of your income and increasing it until it starts to get painful.  When I got my first job after college, my older brother helped me develop a budget.  I was planning to put 6% into my 401(k) because that&#8217;s how much the company matches, but my brother encouraged me to put in 20%.  He promised that if I didn&#8217;t see it, I&#8217;d never miss it, and he was right.  I haven&#8217;t missed it in the 3 years since I started the job, because I budgeted for living without it.</p>
<p>I realize that not everyone is in a position to save 20%, but I think it&#8217;s far easier to start by saving more than you think you can than to try to increase your savings percentage over time.</p>
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		<title>By: Lurker Carl</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/comment-page-1/#comment-388075</link>
		<dc:creator>Lurker Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 21:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/#comment-388075</guid>
		<description>Universal life insurance only makes the agent selling such policies a millionaire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Universal life insurance only makes the agent selling such policies a millionaire.</p>
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		<title>By: Cindy B.</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/comment-page-1/#comment-388038</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 20:19:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/#comment-388038</guid>
		<description>Thank you Trent.
I&#039;ve read their other two books and always get hung up on the tax free income borrowed from your over-funded universal life insurance policy.  Thank you for explaining why it sounded too good to be true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Trent.<br />
I&#8217;ve read their other two books and always get hung up on the tax free income borrowed from your over-funded universal life insurance policy.  Thank you for explaining why it sounded too good to be true.</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/comment-page-1/#comment-388028</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 19:41:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/#comment-388028</guid>
		<description>Yes, most people are probably better off with the slow, steady, cautious, diversified approach. Nothing wrong with that. Compound interest is great.  But the select few with the desire, knowledge, and skills necessary to accomplish more are not better off with that approach.  Some people are not willing to wait 30 years for their millions.  It&#039;s not gambling, it&#039;s calculated entrepreneurial risk taking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, most people are probably better off with the slow, steady, cautious, diversified approach. Nothing wrong with that. Compound interest is great.  But the select few with the desire, knowledge, and skills necessary to accomplish more are not better off with that approach.  Some people are not willing to wait 30 years for their millions.  It&#8217;s not gambling, it&#8217;s calculated entrepreneurial risk taking.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/comment-page-1/#comment-388006</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 18:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/#comment-388006</guid>
		<description>If you are making $30K and save 50% you would need to get a 31.25% annual return rate to get over 1 million in ten years!  That is a REALLY tall order, I don&#039;t think even Peter Lynch had that good of a record.  

However, if you invest that same amount for 30 years and only get an 8% annual return you would end up with over $1.86 million!  

Sure, some people may be lucky enough to concentrate in the right investment when a bubble forms and get out before it bursts and do great... but unless you own a functional crystal ball I wouldn’t try it.  You could be one of those people that concentrated in the wrong investment just when a bubble burst!  Ouch!  

I think most people are better off with a diversified portfolio that &quot;only&quot; returns 8% annually over a 30 year period then gambling it all away in an attempt to get rich quick.

-Rick Francis</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you are making $30K and save 50% you would need to get a 31.25% annual return rate to get over 1 million in ten years!  That is a REALLY tall order, I don&#8217;t think even Peter Lynch had that good of a record.  </p>
<p>However, if you invest that same amount for 30 years and only get an 8% annual return you would end up with over $1.86 million!  </p>
<p>Sure, some people may be lucky enough to concentrate in the right investment when a bubble forms and get out before it bursts and do great&#8230; but unless you own a functional crystal ball I wouldn’t try it.  You could be one of those people that concentrated in the wrong investment just when a bubble burst!  Ouch!  </p>
<p>I think most people are better off with a diversified portfolio that &#8220;only&#8221; returns 8% annually over a 30 year period then gambling it all away in an attempt to get rich quick.</p>
<p>-Rick Francis</p>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/comment-page-1/#comment-387985</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 17:10:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/#comment-387985</guid>
		<description>Diversification is fine for the average investor, but it won&#039;t make you a millionaire any time soon unless you have high income or wealth to begin with.  

Diversification reduces risk AND returns. 

Investors with the highest ROI&#039;s search for or create investments with extrodinary potential returns and then focus their capital on those investments.

Increased risk is not for everyone, but neither is the slow and steady approach.  

But yes, the expectation of consistent 10-15% returns on single family real estate investments is ridiculous.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Diversification is fine for the average investor, but it won&#8217;t make you a millionaire any time soon unless you have high income or wealth to begin with.  </p>
<p>Diversification reduces risk AND returns. </p>
<p>Investors with the highest ROI&#8217;s search for or create investments with extrodinary potential returns and then focus their capital on those investments.</p>
<p>Increased risk is not for everyone, but neither is the slow and steady approach.  </p>
<p>But yes, the expectation of consistent 10-15% returns on single family real estate investments is ridiculous.</p>
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		<title>By: Your Friendly Neighborhood Computer Guy</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/comment-page-1/#comment-387933</link>
		<dc:creator>Your Friendly Neighborhood Computer Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 15:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/#comment-387933</guid>
		<description>Ah, I don&#039;t think I&#039;ve seen an overwhelming negative book review since I&#039;ve been keeping track here.  It&#039;s nice to see you point out some of the flaws in books that try to ride the latest fad &quot;wave&quot; only to become irrelevant when that wave hits the shore in a year or two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;ve seen an overwhelming negative book review since I&#8217;ve been keeping track here.  It&#8217;s nice to see you point out some of the flaws in books that try to ride the latest fad &#8220;wave&#8221; only to become irrelevant when that wave hits the shore in a year or two.</p>
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		<title>By: Stop Getting Cheated</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/comment-page-1/#comment-387911</link>
		<dc:creator>Stop Getting Cheated</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 14:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2008/10/05/review-millionaire-by-thirty/#comment-387911</guid>
		<description>Trent, thank goodness there are guys like you who will take the time to review, distill the author&#039;s strategies, and provide us with a comprehensive summary of flaws in a much-hyped book like this one.

I&#039;m sure there were young people right out of college who took the Andrews&#039; strategies to heart...and now feel blind-sided.

I like it that you remain objective and acknowledge the specific good points of all the books you review, as opposed to just skewering their flawed advice. You are always fair.

Have you considered reviewing any of Jason Kelly&#039;s books such as &quot;The Neatest Little Guide to Personal Finance&quot; or &quot;The Neatest Little Guide to Do-It-Yourself-Investing?&quot; I always liked his approach. His basic advice is to spend less than you earn, invest the difference, and protect what you have. Plus, he&#039;s pretty funny.

Great post. I will definitely stay away from the Andrews&#039;  book</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trent, thank goodness there are guys like you who will take the time to review, distill the author&#8217;s strategies, and provide us with a comprehensive summary of flaws in a much-hyped book like this one.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure there were young people right out of college who took the Andrews&#8217; strategies to heart&#8230;and now feel blind-sided.</p>
<p>I like it that you remain objective and acknowledge the specific good points of all the books you review, as opposed to just skewering their flawed advice. You are always fair.</p>
<p>Have you considered reviewing any of Jason Kelly&#8217;s books such as &#8220;The Neatest Little Guide to Personal Finance&#8221; or &#8220;The Neatest Little Guide to Do-It-Yourself-Investing?&#8221; I always liked his approach. His basic advice is to spend less than you earn, invest the difference, and protect what you have. Plus, he&#8217;s pretty funny.</p>
<p>Great post. I will definitely stay away from the Andrews&#8217;  book</p>
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