Brian–the best way to conserve calories would be to perform little or no physical activity. Sort of goes against what we know about health, no? It’s estimated that 30-50% of food produced in the U.S. is wasted. Trent has provided many ways to use leftovers and store food effectively. I’d argue that his methods to reduce waste do more to conserve food than simply curbing consumption.

Brian (#30) I think that’s just an excuse. And a damn rude one too. Do you think overweight people simply wake up one day and say “I think I’ll starve a few poverty stricken villagers in some backwards country”? Have you ever walk up to an overweight woman at a restaurant and said “You really shouldn’t be eating that hamburger, tofu is so much more environmentally friendly and less fattening to boot!” Do you have any idea WHY obesity is considered a clinical condition? Because less than 5% can be ‘cured’ (ie – diet to an acceptable BMI). Being overweight is not a personality problem but you wouldn’t know since you’ve never spoken to one. Otherwise you’d figure out that are “intelligent, frugal, informed, educated, aware, green, etc.” (although maybe not all at the same time).

Kim (#32) I can forgive ignorance. I chose not to forgive rudeness.

Back to our regularly scheduled program … WhirlMind – I do like that you define “dishonesty” for yourself and I think I agree with you in most cases. Arguing couples, bad investments, unnecessary purchases can be chalked up to bad comunication, bad research, bad money-control skills. The problem, I think, is that some much of what goes on in the mind is so many shades of gray. A teenager promises to call, thinks about calling, decides that maybe s/he can call later than agreed upon, decides it’s too late to call since home is only 10 minutes away … at no point is there any intentional conscious distortion of truth, but the end result is a dishonest act (promising to call; not calling). I think if there is a continuing pattern of not planning ahead, arguing, poor spending choices, bad investments; then we are deluding ourselves in some way and are being totally dishonest either with ourselves or with others. The problem is knowing when an occasional thoughtless event, such as an argument or impulse purchase, has become dishonesty to others or self.

I’ll agree with you on the initial introduction part , the need for honesty (well-written and persuasive) and also with the last part on how to cultivate it. (okayish and heard before, though)

What I disagree, however, are the examples you have chosen for dishonesty in money matters. And quite oddly, this time around, not even one of them I find appropriate to the topic.

imho, all the examples you mentioned, are “something else” defects which you forcefully attribute to dishonesty.

1. Not planning ahead for the future – this is shortsightedness or ignorance or carelessness or being disorganized

2. Arguing with your spouse about money – It’s quite possible both are honest, just their perceptions, preferences or knowledge/ignorance levels are different and related to other strains. I think it is this most of the time and not dishonesty.

3. Spending money to feel better about yourself -
Agreed this is a personality aspect that needs attention and improvement, but not deceit.

4. Making poor investment choices – again ignorance, laziness, fear to learn, whatever but rarely dishonesty.

Dishonesty, as I see it, most often denotes an intentional conscious distortion of truth with a specific ulterior motive, whether the motive pertains to oneself or to another. All the examples you have provided are cases where “people just don’t know” or “people think in a particular way”. That doesn’t mean repeated, deliberate, malicious intention. Most people whom you mention as “dishonest to oneself” are mostly in their own “cloud” and haven’t paused to deliberate on those things. Not that, they have thought and yet acted with malice.

Maybe, I am just nitpicking on one word and drilling into too much into its dictionary meaning. But, when I look at it this way, I think the whole relevance of the post, rests on how one defines the word honesty for oneself.

As to your main premise, the causes for the personal finance problems people have vary from ignorance to laziness to greed. Dishonesty is also one important reason, but the specific examples you picked don’t substantiate that. For dishonesty in personal money matters, I would think, “cooking” up bills, misreporting on your tax papers, cheating on instalments, misusing loans or lying about loan objectives, bribery are more blatant examples.

I felt like commenting mainly because I found that, ALL the 4 examples, fall into this category, of no deliberate malice.

Brian’s comments about people in Africa starving are especially insulting. First of all, Trent is a charitable person, his previous posts indicate such. He is responsible as his life choices prove. Many of us who are above whatever the ideal of the moment seems to be are, in fact, charitable and concerned about the poor and the world’s hungry peoples. Does Brian make each of his decisions based upon how much money he can send to Africa? Perhaps he has determined that it is better to live on the streets so as to be able to send more funds to the poor across the world. Perhaps he goes without shoes so that another poor person can eat for a month or two. Perhaps he should sell his computer and give the proceeds to the poor all over the world. Personal choices all. I know those who do not own a television set so as to cut back on expenses to be more charitable. These are personal choices we each make.

The only diet that has made any significant changes for me, due to a lot of health issues which I should not have to explain to a stranger (or a friend, if I don’t want to) is a completely unhealthy reduction in caloric intake which is only sustainable if one has a mental health disorder, has no access to food or lives in a concentration camp. One never knows. Additionally, what is considered healthy in our culture would have been considered unhealthy and ridiculous in other cultures at other times. I was told by a Kenyan friend of mine “in my country YOU are the ideal.”

But perhaps, instead of us all taking grave offense at Brian’s remarks to one who we hold in esteem and affection (I know I almost feel like I KNOW Trent) perhaps we should forgive him for the flaws in his upbringing which would lead him to make such rude, disruptive, and off-subject remarks.

Trent. Thank you for this post. It has gotten me thinking.

If someone is really honest, meaning that they can see something close to the core of the truth, what they say and do can strike deep and be very healing both to themselves and even to those who are strangers to them. This is different from superficial honesty.

You write a well-researched, thoughtful blog and I think some other readers here are being insensitive. I’m sure debate is welcome, but insulting someone on the basis of their weight? That’s just unfair. Trent never claimed he was perfect! I think Brian and Justin are missing the point of the article.

I felt that the lead-in paragraphs do not support the financial part of the post. I agree that lying to yourself about buying things to feel better is a very poor financial choice. But I also agree with the comments that say complete honesty is just a lack of tact and/or social skills.

Honesty about Santa Claus and honesty about how much you are saving and investing for the future are two different things.

Those people with the “honest” stick you mention are usually people you only forgive and easily when they are close to you, truly care about you with good intentions, will actually help you in need (usually family), behave in that way. Gotta love it when they say, “Told you so.”

When that behavior comes from people who are relative strangers like colleagues, neighbors, and those passing swiftly in your life, they’re doing it to flat out be jerks. I have heard jerks use the words “Please” and “Thank you” in their sentences, they aren’t even polite, they’re just pushing polite words around.

I think a better relationship is managing expectations based on time allowed to accomplish things and how much money will be gained for giving up that time. It takes quite a number of work hours to buy an object, but the return on investment may be very low if your spouse disapproves or you bought it for the sake of having/hoarding.