Comments on: Debt Repayment and Frugality as Obsession: It Depends on How Your Brain Works

By: Tara

Tara — Sun, 12 Jul 2009 20:10:22 +0000

I am a student in college (19 yrs old) and putting myself through college. I spent one yr at a community college (tuition, books, everything was free) and in about a month I will be moving out of my parent’s home to stay on campus (veryyyy expensive but def worth it). I am constantly looking for ways to save money while understanding that these are certainly the years of sacrifice. Does anyone have any suggestions for college students?

By: Sarah

Sarah — Thu, 28 May 2009 18:56:08 +0000

CHEETAH!!

LOL, I love that! It’s definitely my own take on cc apps and the like that come (unwanted) in my mail.

By: Liko

Liko — Fri, 22 May 2009 16:35:02 +0000

I’ve struggled with debt for almost ten years (since I was 19). To me debt seemed like this big monster, throwing pebbles (small payments) at it only angred it. By applying the slow and steady method my debt grew from $3k to $43k. Then I decided to wage all out war against debt. I attacked it with everything I got! I was extremly intense about it and made it my #1 enemy! I knew it was going to be long battle so I did “pace” myself by allowing myself a little blow money.

Just when I thought I almost killed this monster, a few weeks ago it got back up in the from of a Vespa. This monster just won’t DIE! Now the scooter is back up on Craigslist and I should be completely debt free in a week or so! This battle took over 14 months of intesnse focus and obsesion! I’m looking forward to a vacation for the first time in over a year.

By: Kevin

Kevin — Fri, 22 May 2009 15:53:06 +0000

Very good article. I too am “gazelle” intense. I started about 2 years ago — got myself debt free except the mortgage and then sat around accumulating money and investing. Eventually, I figured out I needed something new to attack so I turned my attention to my mortgage about 4 months ago. I have taken that 180,000 down to about 157000 by plunging that extra cash into it (i still have my fully funded emergency fund of course). I plan on paying that “bastard” off in 3-4 years depending on how much income I can create. I’m kind of addicted to the process! It’s fun!

By: Char

Char — Fri, 22 May 2009 14:06:55 +0000

I absolutely have to attack finances with laser focus or I drift back into my old ways. I agree with JD’s comment though, I think you are both saying the same thing. People have to do what works for them. I know people that if they did what I did with my finances they would fall off the wagon the next day, at the same time, if I don’t stay completely focused (not to say that I am some kind of lunatic about it) then I fall off the wagon completely very quickly. Different strokes for different folks- but authors like you and J.D. help us all get to were we need to be!

By: Lily

Lily — Fri, 22 May 2009 13:29:46 +0000

I agree that intensity (especially over a long period of time) is just another term for stress, which is why I don’t recommend intensity as a life plan. But for some people, people who truly have not been paying attention to their finances, a period of intense focus on debt might shake them out of their complacent spend-and-owe pattern.

If you can reprogram your brain to automatically say “Do not buy” instead of “Buy,” you’re on the right track to controlling your spending. The problem for a lot of people is that they simply will not give up their patterns of wasteful spending.

By: Rachel

Rachel — Fri, 22 May 2009 12:54:00 +0000

Maybe it’s just not giving up entirely, but doing it in a different way. I recently became aware of how much you can actually do with $1.00. I love ice cream, and I can treat myself to a sundae or a cone for that price at McDonalds or Sonic. I can also get a bag of popcorn and a soft drink at Target for $1.00. WE have a theater shows movies a few months after their release for $1.00. I love to read, and I mostly get books at the library, but I will buy a book at a yard sale if it something I really want to read, but I don’t pay more than $1.00. I think if you don’t have a standard like this, you give in to the $4.00 Starbucks drink a lot more easily.

By: JT

JT — Fri, 22 May 2009 03:21:18 +0000

I think its about priorities. Everyone has a different reaction to debt, and if its a stressor in your life than you’re better off with the gazzelle approach to just deal with it, because at least then you’ll feel empowered instead of crippled over the debt. If you feel like you’re in a good place though, and are making strides in paying the debt then its ok to just relax a bit – still stay focused on it but without going into total deprivation mode.

By: Kate@LivingTheFrugalLife

Kate@LivingTheFrugalLife — Thu, 21 May 2009 21:35:54 +0000

I’m somewhere in between Trent and J.D.’s scenario. Mentally I converted quickly: I made a relatively sudden decision to change to an extremely frugal lifestyle. But in terms of my routine and the material changes – that all happened gradually. Little by little I found new ways to save money here and there. Yeah, there were a few things that saved us a lot of money in one fell swoop, but those are few and far between. The little changes happened so slowly and steadily that I never felt any shock to the system. It’s worked well for me, and I’m still sticking to a very frugal lifestyle, so I think this has staying power in my life.

We were never in debt prior to my conversion though. It was getting a mortgage – still our only debt – that caused me to convert. Guess I’m just allergic to debt.

By: Angie

Angie — Thu, 21 May 2009 20:56:14 +0000

I find this very difficult. When you finally take the plunge to pay down debt how can you NOT be obsessive when everything you buy could have been put towards repayment instead. Say I spend $50 at a dinner. Because I didn’t put that towards my loan (where it could have saved interest at 9%), its pretty much like I’m buying it on credit at 9% even though I’m paying out of my checking account. At least thats how I look at it.

I feel I’m depriving myself too much and being miserable because of it. But I can’t stop being obsessive about it because the amount of debt to repay is so stressful.

By: F

Thu, 21 May 2009 20:37:37 +0000

Hey Trent,
Your post reminds of a similar (very inspiring!) post I read a while ago: “save money like a madman”

http://ptmoney.com/2008/09/04/how-to-save-money-like-a-madman/

By: Kyle

Kyle — Thu, 21 May 2009 20:26:36 +0000

We went one step at a time.

First, we cut off some non-essential bills.

Then, we made a real budget and stuck to it for two whole weeks. We used the envelope method.

Then, we started mixing in ways to cut our food budget. (Thanks, Trent, for the bread and pizza recipes!)

By: Michiko

Michiko — Thu, 21 May 2009 20:00:31 +0000

Somehow I think the situation really dictates which way you approach frugality. When you’ve hit rock bottom, and there’s no where to turn, the pressure of the situation may give you the motivation to adopt changes one might not have otherwise.

By: Noelle

Noelle — Thu, 21 May 2009 19:31:44 +0000

Hi, Trent. I finally decided to un-lurk to post about this. Exec summary: I am on the “obsession” side of the fence on debt reduction.

Prior to seeing Dave Ramsey in action (as opposed to just reading his books), I had always thought that if I tried to be too intense it would fail. This was based on my experience after reading _Your Money or Your Life_ and the Jerrold Mundis book _Get out of Debt…_ at different, high-debt, times in my life. I loved the books and really wanted to commit seriously, but fell back into “it’s too much; I’ve got fun stuff to do now in my 20’s/30’s; I’ll catch up later,” etc.

It wasn’t until I saw the energy DR put into his presentations (I did FPU at home last year) that I got a real sense of what it could be like to hit the debt HARD and get it gone.

Perhaps this just means that I am a visual and auditory learner :~), but I’d like to think that 3rd time is a charm and THIS TIME I’ll do the sacrificing now and get to coast later.

By: Matt

Matt — Thu, 21 May 2009 18:52:50 +0000

I’m a zealot for debt repayment. I get hyperfocused trying to figure out the best/fastest way to do it, but I always seemed to fail until I realized that I couldn’t stay that hyperfocused for an extended period of time (3 months). However, once I internalized the idea of saving for the purchases that I wanted to make rather than just buying them on credit I found success. I don’t feel deprived because I know that I’ll eventually get what I want, it’ll just take a little while longer.

By: Early Retirement Extreme

Early Retirement Extreme — Thu, 21 May 2009 18:43:42 +0000

Like so many other things intensity follows a power law and the Pareto principle holds, that is, 20% of the people will do 80% of the total effort. Actually I think it is closer to a 10/90 division.

Personally, I would never feel any kind of accomplishments doing baby-steps. For me a single-minded focus can replace any bad habits with good habits in about 3 weeks, whereas small steps are likely to be forgotten in about the same time because they simply don’t bring tangible results fast enough. I tried both, so I know.

I think it ultimately comes down to how much you value the comfort of the status quo vs the vision you have of what you could be. Death before dishonor, or not?

PS: I see exactly the same thing with physical exercise. 90% want easy; only 10% go all out. It is interesting to note that some of older guys I play hockey (one of the toughest sports on the planet) with were all very good athletes when they were 30 years younger, and they still are. It’s all in the mind. Character! You become what you are.

By: Des

Des — Thu, 21 May 2009 18:41:45 +0000

@Matt (comment #10)

I don’t think anyone ever suggested being “gazelle intense” *forever*, only long enough to get yourself out of debt. To that end, it absolutely works.

By: Eve

Eve — Thu, 21 May 2009 18:23:39 +0000

But, Trent, you pay a little extra for things that you and your family consider important and that fit with your values. Higher quality food, etc. So to some extent you didn’t, as J.D. writes, “leap headlong into a life of thrift, for example, giving up everything you valued before.”

By: Matt

Matt — Thu, 21 May 2009 18:08:00 +0000

I agree with Tony. The only way to handle debt is in moderation. Trent, your philosophy would explain that you’d never buy that bottle of wine, or DS game, etc. That’s the gazelle method, so-to-speak, and it just doesn’t work. Yeah, it could work for long enough to where you get out of debt enough to use the moderation approach, but you can’t do it forever. No obcession is a good thing, I hope everyone can admit that. :)

By: Sarah in Alaska

Sarah in Alaska — Thu, 21 May 2009 17:11:49 +0000

Gazelle intensity
Has anyone mentioned the fact that in addition to being fast, gazelles have very efficient metabolisms? Because their metabolism is so efficient they do not require much water to survive and will recycle their waste until it is almost completely dry. In addition, gazelles have shrunk their hearts and livers to survive drought conditions.

It’s like the animal kingdom equivalent of “use it up, wear it out, make it do, or do without”.

I think both attributes are important – intensity and consistency – in straightening out finances. The early intensity gets you going and learning, consistency keeps you on track so you can implement your newly found skills.