Comments on: “Eighteen and Out” – Good Parenting or Bad Parenting?

By: chris cruz

chris cruz — Tue, 29 Sep 2009 11:41:24 +0000

Especially with the economy now I dont know of any parents who give their kids the ultimatum “18 and out.” But ideally parents and kids would ideally like to go off to college at 18 and be fully independent with a “good job” when they graduate. Parents have the idea that if kids just do good in college there would be corporations lining up to take their pick at seniors like the NFL draft. No parents really want their kids to move back home after graduation unless they absolutely have to.

I have a few friends that were great students, did well in school all throughout college, never worked but are now lost because they dont know what to do. They’re so used to the school system of study, do good, then be rewarded. They didn’t major in a straight to work major like the medical field and are still waiting to be rewarded for graduating. They lack real world skills but did everything by the book. I believe that schools really need to teach students more real world skills like financial literacy. It’s rare to have a job now where you can put all your trust and life into a corporation that will take care of you for the rest of your life.

By: Honey

Honey — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 23:52:05 +0000

Who says that refusing to give your children money is “washing your hands of them”?

By: Katy

Katy — Mon, 28 Sep 2009 20:37:36 +0000

I would recommend what my parents did for me. I came up with a budget for living expenses and some discretionary funds, and paid for what I could with a part time job, while my parents paid the rest. I could learn how to budget and manage finances, but did not have to lose studying or networking time to do fully support myself.

I would also say that I recently offered my home to a college friend who was fully support by his parents. He is out of college 3 years now, and was living in his car, because he still hasn’t figured out how to manage money or be responsible. I gave him 4 weeks to live rent free and gather funds, but he had so little willpower, he didn’t save a dime and is now moving back in with his parents who are “thrilled” to have him back.

I wouldn’t recommend going fully independent while in college, because there are a LOT of opportunities that are non-paying and time consuming but very helpful for the future, BUT, parents should come up with a plan to encourage the child to take some responsibility for money and time management. College is a great time for us kids to ‘test our wings’ before we go out into the world and its a disservice to your children to not encourage this in someway. Even more of a disservice if you continue it later in life

By: Shevy

Shevy — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:29:36 +0000

A lot of interesting comments here. When I was in high school I knew a girl who had already been told that she and her 3 sisters would have to move out on their 18th birthdays. We were in junior high and she was already worried.

I actually moved out just before I turned 18 (to be closer to my first job) and never lived at home again. I moved 650 miles from home a year later the day after I got married.

Did all of that make me independent? Not in the least. I was an only child and my folks insisted on picking my first apartment for me! They provided financial help throughout my marriage and after it broke up (when I was a single mother with 3 kids 5 and under).

But it cuts both ways. Each of my kids took turns during their teens living with my mother over a period of 5 or 6 years so she could stay in her condo and not have to go into extended care (she had very serious rheumatoid arthritis and had multiple surgeries & lots of meds). It wasn’t easy, as whoever was there had to take 2 buses and rapid transit to get to and from their private religious high school from where my mother lived and I’m very proud of them.

Now, my 2nd husband, our 6 year old & I share a house with one of my adult kids and her family. We share childcare, vehicles and get each other to work and school. My other 2 adult kids live on their own. Different things work for different people.

I think my parents (especially my mother) should have handled things differently so that I was able to become financially independent at a much younger age but that’s just wishful thinking. I mean, we’re talking about a woman who expected me to hold her hand when we crossed the street *when I was a teenager*! She clearly never intended for me to grow up. And I wanted to, but I didn’t have the skills so I was just floundering around. I’ve tried to make sure all my kids know more, but you also have to let them make their own mistakes or you just become your own mother.

By: Cyllya

Cyllya — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 18:24:22 +0000

The topic of how much independence to give your child (in any area, not just at moving out at 18) is a tricky subject, but it seems to me that the general guidelines should be:
1) Let your kid try anything where failure won’t be horribly disastrous.
2) Keep an eye on your kid so that you know if/when they are about to fail.
3) If your kid asks for help, give it. (This doesn’t necessarily mean swoop in and obliterate the problem completely. There are times when that’s appropriate, but use the kid’s desires as a guideline.) Otherwise, hands off.
4) If failure seems inevitable but your kid still hasn’t ask for help, strongly consider letting him fail, especially if he turns down help when you offer it. You’ll have to use your judgment here, but failure isn’t necessarily that big of a deal.

I agree with everyone who says not to take on student loans if you don’t have to. That’s just a different kind of dependence. If you can’t pay for tuition/books on your own but your parents can and will, let them pay for it and consider it a debt to them if you really want to.

If you have things where your bills are currently combined with theirs (like a family cell phone plan), I’d go ahead and keep that.

Other than that, what’s the worst that could happen if you try to be independent and fail? You work extra hard, get stressed out, and still can’t pay the bills? Well, they can give you money THEN! Even though you’ll feel a bit ashamed and they’ll have still given you money, chances are that scenario still lets you keep more pride and them keep more money than if you’d never tried at all.

By: Anthony

Anthony — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 15:26:44 +0000

A lot of people here have mentioned not being able to support yourself in college, because it’s so expensive. I do believe, personally, that parents should save up for their children to be able to go to college. At least in part. Also, I’m 22 years old and have not yet gone to college. I’m aiming to be able to be financially stable and able to AFFORD it, not BORROW. I’m looking at Apprenticeships in my career field, etc. etc. etc. Ya, that may not be possible for everyone, and in that case I’d understand a parent helping their kid out with food and such while their in college. But it should taper off…I don’t think a parent should IMMEDIATELY cancel all support.

-Anthony.

By: Sandy

Sandy — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:23:59 +0000

I think these rules are all livable…whatever the parents and kids decide to do, as long as everyone is on the same page about expectations.
I must write about one of my saddest professional day. I was working as a counselor at a homeless women’s shelter. One evening, a young woman came to the shelter. I did the intake, and as I asked her her birthdate, she started crying, and then told me that her 18th birthday was the day before, and her parents had kicked her out.
No money, no job, and unfortunately, nowhere to sleep. I could never do that to my child, but, I guess it’s done all the time.

By: Cheryl

Cheryl — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 12:25:11 +0000

Wow. Seems everyone’s opinion differs on this topic!
I think it depends on the parents, and how they raised their child – of course, I completely agree with Trent on the NOT supporting adult children – as that just enables, and they will never get anywhere in life. You have to TEACH and GUIDE your children – give them the skills and they will make it.
I was thrown out on my 18th birthday – 2 months before HS graduation. No other reason than my Father felt that at 18 you were an “adult”, therefore – get out of my house and be one – and his Father did that to him.
I was never taught any financials other than putting any birthday, job money into a savings account (to this day, at 44, I have not seen a dime of those “savings”), I had no car, and was never taught to drive! I had to move in with a friend, as I had no idea what I was going to do. I made it to graduation, got a full time minimum wage job at a local retailer – and thankfully, met a couple at church who took me in and guided me through the next 2 years – showing me how to save, drive, get my license and buy a car – and eventually, move out into my own apartment. I am forever thankful to them.
It took me many years of working full time during the day, and going to school at night to finally get my degree – and personally, while I felt I was cheated out of something by my Father – I made my way on my own by struggling for many years – and am proud of that, BUT I would NEVER do that to my own child! I would teach them the skills they need to make it, and guide them through the process, rather than the “trial and error” that I had to go through by being tossed out the day I became an “adult”.

By: Rosa

Rosa — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 03:08:39 +0000

I still don’t get why people think taking on student loans is demonstrating independence. It’s just a more expensive form of dependence.

By: mellen

mellen — Sun, 27 Sep 2009 02:25:34 +0000

Why have children if you are going to wash your hands of them as soon as possible?

By: Georgia

Georgia — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 17:40:10 +0000

My experience won’t be as helpful, but I will give it. I was raised in a household where no one had gone to college. I wanted to badly. I turned down a full scholarship to any of our state’s teachers colleges because I wanted to go to our church college. There I received a $50 grant and that was it. I worked for 1 year before going. I lived at home.

I went through 2 years there with no help from home. I took a full load and worked 40-48 hours a week at minimum wage or less. This was in 1956-8. My costs actually ended up being cheaper than at a state college. I had no loans to pay off and until the year after I left school there was no such thing as guaranteed student loans. The only help I got from home was the money I had paid in rent when I was in my late teens. Mom & Dad had banked it and when I lost my job 2nd semester of my soph. year, they sent that so I wouldn’t lose what I had already spent.

I just took 2 courses at a local community college which cost me more (incl books) than I paid for a whole year of tuition (full load) and room while at college. Wow – have times changed.

I lived at home between semesters, rent free, and also after out, I left home, worked, moved home again, left again, moved back. When being investigated for a State Dept. job, the question was asked – did I not get along with my step-mother because I left home so many times. Mom said the question was wrong. It should have been – why was I moving back home so many times. I was 25 at the time. The next year I left home for the last time for the State Dept job and then got married.

We did basically the same thing for our daughter when she went. We helped with some minor expenses and she had student loans. This was in the 80’s. Her first year we let her go 400 miles away to college. She had some rules at the school and, if desperate, she could call and we would help. She called very little. She is still paying on the loans because they got deferred so often because her income was little or nil. She is doing fine now. Our son joined the Army and served for 9 years. He now has a wonderful job. We sent them farther from home to help them learn to be on their own, yet with access to us if needed, and a place that still had some rules to follow.

No advice will fit everyone perfectly. Our job is to find and use the best advice for us and to be thankful if our circumstances worked out well.

By: Kelley

Kelley — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:00:09 +0000

My father paid my tuition for college and he paid most of my expenses. For my first two years there I didn’t work during school semesters. I am very grateful that he supported me because I was able to get excellent grades my first two years and figure out the whole college thing without a lot of financial worry and pressure. I always worked in the summer and saved that money to buy a car and use throughout the year for clothes and other personal stuff. I was able to strech the summer job money because my dad paid rent, car insurance (he always wanted to make sure I had insurance), health insurance, gas/electric bills, and tuition and books, but not much above that.
It worked very well for me because as I got older I was more able to balance school and a job. I also found interesting jobs – I never felt trapped in a job I hated because I knew I had a safety net, but I didn’t ever feel entitled to the support either.
For me, it made a really good balance, and now that I have a child of my own I plan to do the same with her. She knows that at 18 she will be independent and on her own, yet as long as she’s working on school I will cover her necessities, at least through the first two years so she can study hard.

By: sewingirl

sewingirl — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 14:59:41 +0000

From an older perspective, when I graduated in 1980, I left home, worked full time at minimum wage, went to college part time, shared a cheap apartment with three other girls, bought a huge clunker of a used car, and still managed to eat. My daughters cannot do that anymore, the math just doesn’t add up! DD#1 lived at home while working full time and going to nursing school, so I provided room and board. She still had to take student loans. DD#2 left home, got an apt. worked full time, school at night, and got wiped out when her car died. She took out a reasonable car loan, only $125/mo., and was just too close to the edge, ended up moving back home, still working and going to college. I don’t have money to subsidize them. I do have a house with rooms and beds, and they are welcome to use them.

By: dsz

dsz — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 13:35:48 +0000

I agree with those who believe the all-or-nothing and out-at-18 philosophy is too arbitrary. Some children are simply more capable than others and some need more help, financial or otherwise.
What concerns me is how much were these kids taught along the way? Have they been brought up to be responsible and independent? Did the parents teach them how to cook and clean and balance a checkbook? Were they given the opportunity to learn how to budget their money and given a good foundation towards making good choices in life? To me, that kind of help is far more valuable than a monetary bailout and if the parents haven’t done their best to teach their children how to survive in this world then they *should* support them until they learn. This is the promise you made (or should have made) when you had this child. I’m not saying they shouldn’t learn some things on their own and make their own mistakes but I see so many young people so totally and unnecessarily unprepared for life and most of it is through no fault of their own, their parents never bothered to teach them the most basic things. Maybe the kid isn’t thrilled about learning how to sew a button or make a meatloaf but it’s up to the parents to take the (usually longer and harder) road to be sure they learn so when they are on their own they have that experience to draw on.
Of course that was my experience and I was far more capable than my peers and even people I met who were much older because my parents devoted themselves to teaching me the skills I’d need. Our family shorthand was ‘baby do’ because that’s when they started. My childhood was one long teaching moment but since it was done in a sense of cooperation and love I saw it as fun and loved to make them proud of what I could do. I was a change of life whoops and my mother told me they made a conscious decision to bring me up to be more independent because they knew I wouldn’t have them as long as if they’d had me in their 20s. Sadly, they were right and they were both gone by the time I was 26 but I have the skills they taught me and the ability to teach myself the ones they didn’t. IMHO, that’s what kids need.
They also told me they’d be there to help me in whatever way they could for the rest of their lives. But-since they’d instilled in me a sense of self-reliance I did all I could to avoid asking because I wanted to do it on my own. The two times I had to ask I was so angry at myself for needing a bailout. They were happy to do it but even happier that I’d figured out how to never make that particular mistake again.

By: Caroline

Caroline — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 12:04:52 +0000

My parents started cutting the cord in middle school, when I had to buy gifts for friends’ birthdays with my own money (they stopped driving me to friends’ houses in the neighborhood when I was 9 too). In high school, they paid for shelter, food, health insurance, and vacations. That doesn’t include car insurance, gas, clothing, fun, etc. I learned a lot before 18. I think that’s the way to go because it forces you to figure out budgeting, but still provides absolute necessities. I think my parents did this out of financial necessity though, because I have 2 much younger sisters who are getting whatever they want because my parents have a lot more money now. It’s a real shame they aren’t learning the same skills I was taught.

By: Claudia

Claudia — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:56:52 +0000

We gave our son a lot of money to help him out when he couldn’t find a job out East–we should have just said move home! He now owes us money which he will never be able to repay–we’ve accepted it is gone. But as a result of the debt, he feels guilty no matter how much we assure him and it has hurt our relationship.

By: Griffin

Griffin — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 11:09:58 +0000

I would evaluate this on a case-by-case basis. Someone who has a real idea what they want to do I would love to support throughout college, and maybe a little beyond. But someone trying to find themselves in college or who only wants to go to be with friends won’t really be supported much.

It may not be equal or may be “unfair” to treat kids differently than a sibling, but I would not be vague about the reasoning behind it. If you want to party a lot in college or don’t apply yourself or have no plans to use the education — then you can be the one to pay for the bulk of the cost through a job and/or student loans. I’d still help them by setting them up with a room at home and cheering them on.

I have seen a lot of people make the lifestyle choice to live at a college. Not for the education, just to go and experience it and usually party. They make up a TINY PERCENTAGE of my fellow college students, but most of them have their education funded by parents.

By: Pattie, RN

Pattie, RN — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 10:44:53 +0000

Kirstie and Courtney are both spot on. There is a LOT to be said for multigeneration families, but IMHO it is darn near impossible to acheieve this healthy interdependence without the young person living on their own for some period of time. In our family, visiting our son and family is a joy (at our place or their’s) with everyone being kind, polite, considerate, and taking care of their own messes. This is WORLD’s away from the sullen, messy, impatient couch ‘tator that left my home in 2002! In fact, as he is a soldier, he knows that he and his family are always welcome here if need be!

By: kirstie

kirstie — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:18:39 +0000

I agree with Courtney. However, I think the big difference in her example is that living with family/parents as an adult means that you live as an adult – paying bills or contributing in other ways as needed – not enjoying an extended childhood.

By: steve

steve — Sat, 26 Sep 2009 06:15:01 +0000

Even without full financial independence, young adults can make steps to redefine their relationship with their parents in a way that gains them some of the psychological independence that I think the young woman in the letter is probably yearning for. It requires her to first articulate what she’d like to happen and how she would like to relate with her parents about certain things, then she needs to communicate her desires directly and clearly to her parents in order to redefine and “grow up” or make age appropriate those aspects of their relationship that need changing.

It can be harder work, and less clear, than just moving out but it can work if you want it to work and make it work.