Did you get a chance to call those non-existent Toyota dealers about those non-existent Corolla’s?

The cheapest base model I’ve seen is $23k. The dealer might say, “starting at $21,000″ but when you search inventory the cheapest is $23.5k or so. Admittedly, I live in “the bubble” (Texas) not very affected by the current down economy, and gas hikes weren’t as severe. Thing is, I don’t see a lot of this model here. On average I’ll see the same one per day on my 24 mile commute (the same sandy/tannish/greenish one with the Obama/Biden sticker on it). You’d think the dealer would want to push them.

Then again, you may have been able to deal with a seller who wasn’t moving inventory.

I’m just curious about that. Me, I bought my wife a Versa, loaded, for $16000 barely a year and a half ago (0.9% interest rate) because I went through Costco. She averages 30mpg.

To me the Prius screams, “I’m making a statement!” I’m more interested in quality versus cost, and besides I prefer something more attractive.

The 180,000 mile claim on battery is best case. Your warranty will run out long before then, unless you’re driving 30,000 miles a year. In addition you’ll have to worry about that AC motor, the transmission, and the switching system. The thing you won’t really have to worry about is the IC engine. Toyota builds them pretty darned well, but you’ll still need things like timing belts every 60,000 miles or so. I hope you wangled an extended warranty and didn’t pay for it.

Later in the article, I suggest a recalculation, assuming he gets them for much cheaper, just to try to give the used ones the benefit of the doubt.

Some people prefer used cars, and that’s fine. The hard-and-fast rule of thumb that used is always cheaper, though, isn’t really true.

The initial cost of the junkers is mentioned as 2000, 1500 and 1000 in three different places.

>>he buys old junkers for around $2,000 each on average and drives them until they fall apart.
>>“I usually wind up throwing $500 or so into each one to get that 30,000 out of them.”
which means the total cost per car is 2000 + 500 + 100 (for title transfer) = 2600

>>my friend would buy seven cars at $1,500 each, then put another $500 into them to get them road worthy
He’d also pay $100 each time for the title transfer and other paperwork

now, are you saying the cost per junker = 1500 + 500 + 100 = 2100?

>>Seven cars at $q,000 each, plus another $500 for roadworthiness, plus another $100 for paperwork adds up to $11,200
What is $q,000? judging from your calculations, it seems to be $1000, so total cost per junker = 1000 + 500 + 100 = 1600

>>The junkers are $1,900 cheaper (versus the $20,100 total for the Prius).
They are actually 8900 cheaper, not 1900 cheaper

Also, we need to factor in:

1. The fact that the miles per gallon of the prius will decrease over time, so you will get an average of 30 mpg and not 40 mpg.
2. Difference in monthly insurance payments between an old and a new car ( the difference over 17 years seems to tilt the balance in favor of the used one).
3. Maintenance cost of the Prius (compared to the $500 per each junker) + battery change.

I must also say that:

1. Back of napkin calculations are not the most precise, we tend to leave out data more often, and mostly in favor of our argument.

2. Also, the calculations would have been more precise if you already owned a Prius that you used for 210,000 miles.That way, you would know about each and every expense and insurance premium etc for the car.

My conclusion? without insurance premiums, the Prius and the junkers break even. Considering full coverage for the Prius and only liablity for the junkers, the junkers win.

The other is mechanics–how much collective experience is there in repairing hybrids? At 20k miles, sure, but what about at 80 or 100k? The hybrid phenomena hasn’t been long enough or deep enough to know with any certainty.

Just my thoughts…

But if you find one, please let me know, I’d buy it ASAP

That means they are paying a significant amount of interest and the cost for full insurance coverage (required by the lender).

Don’t forget property tax, since most U.S. jurisdictions do tax vehicles annually typically at the same rate as any other real or personal property.

A basic limitation of frugality is that it is typically a very real trade off of time for money. True they may be saving money, but they do it at a cost of their time.

Thrift is needed in life, especially in after decades of easy credit essentially obliterated it. But like everything else in life, it’s subject to diminishing returns.

I bought a 1991 Volvo last year for $1700. I’ve spent probably $5,000 on it since then, much of that discretionary. But I’m done. That car will last another 4-5 years, I won’t have monthly payments, and my insurance cost is nil. I only drive about 6-8,000 miles a year, so factor in the futility of me paying a premium for a hybrid.

Besides, driving a Prius kind of sucks, unless you don’t like driving. Not like my old 240 is a sports car, but it’s interesting to drive. Prius and most other Toyotas feel like you’re anesthetized.

Oh, car payments. Unless you’re buying that Prius for cash — and I can certainly think of better things to do with cash than dump it into a new car, an asset that depreciates at the speed of light — you’re on the hook for $350+/mo whether you have a job, income, or savings, or not. Ooops, missed an insurance payment? Turn in your plates! My car’s paid off. I don’t have to worry about the repo man even if I lost my job.

Your material is top shelf, as always, Trent!

John DeFlumeri Jr

Total purchase price for the car was $22,000 including interest, but that included a “rollover” of $4,000 from a note on my previous car, which was a mistake. Thankfully, it’s a mistake that’s now officially in the past.

Gas mileage is good – and we don’t drive a lot – so we spend about $30 per 14-gallon fillup, every two to three weeks, which works out to about $625 a year.

Here’s the thing. My two previous cars were “junkers” – bought for as little money up front as possible, with the goal to drive them till they died. Well, you see what happened there; one died before it was even paid off!

Also, while we’ve put the needed work into the Taurus, we have not had any of those “unpleasant surprises” beyond the replacements outlined in the manual – belts at specified times, brakes, tires, etc. – we have not put NEARLY the money into this that I did into those two junkers, and I’ve owned it for as long as I did the two of them combined.

And might I add, this car has never let me sit due to a surprise breakdown, unlike my previous ones. THAT, to me, is a huge value, especially since, as it’s our only car, it’d be hard for my husband to come get me if it did! :)

All that is just to say that I agree that time has value, that “cheap up front” does not always equal “fiscally responsible”, and that Trent, you are as always my hero. :)

Keep in mind that there are regional differences in car prices and availability.

There are no Corollas with under 30k miles for less than $10k within 100 miles from me. There is just one under $12k with 27k miles and thats a 2006 model.

Where my dad lives 400 miles away I can’t find a single Corolla for under $15k with less than 30k miles.

If I look nationally in Autotrader then skim through the results, I see that many of the cheaper Corollas have body damage. I would also assume many of the other cheap ones out there are specials or sales which may be sold by now. But even if its easy to get a $10k car somewhere in the country that doesn’t mean I can get one here.

My point is not specifically about a Corolla. That was simply the closest example to a Prius. Same manufacturer, same buyer, similar car. Vastly different price.

But a Corrola is boring…especially a used one. It is not trendy. No hybrid decal, so the demand is less. And the market shows it.

And I like a Prius. Good technology and advancement.

But I don’t like the tone of the post where those who buy used don’t factor in their time. And I don’t like the example provided to compare to the Prius.

So I gave another example that is a little more fair. A little more balanced.

And those who have done little to no research said I am wrong. But I am not.

Not a fallacy. Not “fictitious and they don’t exist” and “create all kinds of stories about used cars” as T man said in his response to me, so far his only response to this thread.

go to autotrader and search nationwide for 2007 and up corrolas, and used the advanced search and narrow to 12K max price and 30K miles max.

152 results all over the country.

On the first page there are three examples of quality cheap used Corrolas.

a 2009 with 10700 miles listed for $11,900. Price is likely negotiable

a 2007 certified with 14K miles listed for 10,900 and is negotiable

and a 2008 with 10,500 miles for $8,995.

All from Toyota Dealers. All in different parts of the counrty. All different colors. And this is just from the first page. I only scrolled through the first 15-20 listings out of 152.