Counting up food, clothes, field trips, housing, etc. that you pay for your children, would $53 a day sound like an unreasonable number?

My mother has an elderly aunt (turning 90 next month) who never had children (not actually her choice), but was always actively involved in the lives of her siblings’ children. She is currently very lucid and healthy (and we wish her many more years that way), but I have no doubt whatsoever that my mum and her sister, I and my brother and my cousins and even more distant relatives will do everything we can to help her if and when she needs it. On the other hand, I am also sure that she is not completely counting on it, and that she has been putting something away for health and care issues.

Generally, they either put the bulk of their things in storage and ship over a small amount or they ship pretty well their entire household. This is because they almost always rent out their home in their native country for the duration of their stay here. A relative or family friend usually manages the property for them and keeps in touch about things that need to be done, etc. One thing to be aware of is that they generally have to do some work on the house prior to moving back in. Tenants, even good ones, don’t usually take as good care of your place as you do.

The things that don’t make sense to ship are electronics (because they work on different power overseas and, even with adaptors, things often don’t work correctly).

They usually come with their own credit cards but one of the first things they do is open a bank account and get a Canadian credit card. If they come with kids, their children’s tuition at a local private school is paid for. Sometimes the spouse goes back to school here, sometimes they do volunteer work. Rarely do they get a job as well, because their visa doesn’t normally allow for them to work.

They get a car leased for them and are given a cell phone, which is paid for by our organization. They have to pay for some of their other expenses on their credit card but submit an expense account each month and get some of that money back. Since, presumably, after the first month or so they aren’t using the credit cards they brought from “home” there aren’t new charges but they would have to make arrangements to pay down on any outstanding balance.

In this particular instance, they have certain tax advantages after being away for a minimum of 2 years and are able to import certain things duty-free when they go back. This is one of the perks of the job and they usually take advantage of it, shipping back more than they came with.

I hope all of this is helpful to you and your question about living overseas for a couple of years.

Thanks Trent for all you do! I read most every post.

I think the issue is more that you keep pulling the “jump to conclusions” mat away every time I jump. Thanks for answering my question, though.

I recently got a flyer for ING’s Orange Mortgage. They offer incredibly low interest rates. But the structure looks surprisingly like a ARM. What am I missing here?

Thank you,

Pankaj

Staying in your own home, for example – Home health care aides aren’t covered by Medicare unless there is a medical need, and if you can get them, they won’t be covered indefinitely. It’s difficult to get people to stay overnight. And you may not be capable of dealing with juggling caregivers and bills, either mentally or emotionally. If you’re without family, what are your options? Do you form a collective with similarly situated friends?

Do you plan to retire to an assisted living facility with the option to move up to skilled nursing care when the time comes? What will that cost, both in financial terms and in terms of your personal freedom? Lots of food for thought.

If anyone out there DOES have an answer to TheOtherKathi’s question, I’d be interested in it, too.”
And,
“That wasn’t really the question that was asked either. First of all, in the case that’s relevant here (Kathi’s sister’s, mine), “if there were no children” is not the counterfactual – it is the reality. Second, the central question here is not “how much more money will I have than I would if I did have children” – it’s “how much more will I *need* to pay for the care that children might otherwise provide?””

First, Kathi asked 3 questions. They were:
But what if there are no children?
How does that work? (i.e. investing wisely the amount you would have otherwise spent on raising kids and paying for their education)
How do you estimate how much to save for that?

“If there were no children” is taken directly from Kathi’s question. It’s not necessarily the ultimate reality for either Kathi or her sister.

Clearly, Trent answered that. If there are no children (which there will probably be in Kathi’s case and may or not be in her sister’s case) then there is no one to support you in the way that many children support their elderly parents.

The answer to the second question seems to be self-evident. You have to invest that money wisely. The other aspect of this is that you have to have a way to estimate the amount you would have spent on children, had you had them, hence the 3rd question.

This one is really impossible to answer definitively. Each person spends a different amount on their kids (and different amounts on different kids, depending on their individual interests and the parents’ changing financial situation). Plus, what you think you will spend on a child is not necessarily what you will actually spend.

As for the parenthetical comment, that was just totally off base. Trent was, as has been pointed out by others, referring back to Kathi’s sister’s belief that she isn’t ‘good “mom” material’. If she doesn’t want to have kids and doesn’t feel she’ll do well raising them she should not have them anyway in the belief that they will support her in her old age. (This is the flip side of what we were talking about last week regarding developing countries, where there is no realistic alternative to having kids if one wants to be taken care of later.)

And the central point of the 3rd question does, in fact, depend on how much money a person would have “saved” by not having children rather than how much may be *needed* for long term care since there will not be more money than that available regardless. It’s irrelevant that you may need more. You can’t create the money from thin air, only by making different choices as to how you earn, spend, save and invest throughout your life.

My grandmother died when she fell asleep after my mom’s goodnight kiss to her, at home, in her own bed. My mom endured 2 years of wet sheets, and rolling her over every few hours at night. She closed her small business temporarily to do it. Two years in exchange for a lifetime of caring of live seemed a modest offering to us all. Grandma had a chance to tell us each what she thought was most important in her final days, because we were around. That does not happen with the hired help.

Children learn mostly by example.

It’s good to teach your children to listen to the elderly, even thought it sometimes takes forever for them to get a sentence out. A lot of people talk over the elderly, missing out on a lot of wisdom and learning. I mean- you want your kids to listen to you when you are old!

I myself will do my best to prepare to be autonomous, as I plan to live rural off the grid, and my kids love the city! I have no expectations based on my financial investment in them, and am aware that most women outlive their mates.

But I agree with Trent – rich is freedom to do what you want. There were times when I was in bad jobs, but I couldn’t afford to leave them. That’s when I knew I had to get myself financially independent. I’m still dependent on a job, but have enough leeway with my money to get myself out of a bad job situation even if it means a period of unemployment – I feel like I’m rich or at least headed there. Eventually I don’t plan on being dependent on a job – even though I may still work if I want – now that is truly rich.

Otherwise, if you assume that you’ve a reasonable chance of ending up infirm, but in your own home a couple of hours a day of help is in the region of £5k-£7k per year. Plus you might need to pay a handyman to do things like change lightbulbs and so on, and for supermarket delivery and so on. Make it an even extra £10k a year.

This means, you’d need to save something like £400k to cover your additional care that you’d otherwise be persuading your children to do. That seems to work out at something like £650 a month for 20 years (plus another 20 years compounding) – easily what you could spend on one kid. And of course, if you’re paying for the care you have more control.

All the numbers above are back of the cigarette packet and no accuracy should be assumed.