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	<title>Comments on: Retirement or Education?</title>
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	<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/</link>
	<description>Simple, applicable personal finance advice for the modern world</description>
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		<title>By: Personal Finance Student</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-855307</link>
		<dc:creator>Personal Finance Student</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 04:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-855307</guid>
		<description>Preferably, education!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Preferably, education!</p>
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		<title>By: SLCCOM</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854896</link>
		<dc:creator>SLCCOM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 05:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854896</guid>
		<description>#13, Brent, and everyone, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES take out a loan to pay for your child&#039;s education! Your kid might never graduate, might become ill and be unable to work, or might marry a spouse like my nephew did, and be unwilling to pay back the loan. 

My brother-in-law is now on very thin ice financially, is 57 and is some $30,000 in debt for his son&#039;s education with no way to compel the little $#(*#@ to pay for it. The only bright side is that since it isn&#039;t an &quot;educational loan,&quot; he can get out from under it with bankruptcy if necessary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>#13, Brent, and everyone, under NO CIRCUMSTANCES take out a loan to pay for your child&#8217;s education! Your kid might never graduate, might become ill and be unable to work, or might marry a spouse like my nephew did, and be unwilling to pay back the loan. </p>
<p>My brother-in-law is now on very thin ice financially, is 57 and is some $30,000 in debt for his son&#8217;s education with no way to compel the little $#(*#@ to pay for it. The only bright side is that since it isn&#8217;t an &#8220;educational loan,&#8221; he can get out from under it with bankruptcy if necessary.</p>
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		<title>By: CJ</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854872</link>
		<dc:creator>CJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 03:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854872</guid>
		<description>&quot;A final note: if you haven’t saved adequately for college, you may end up being a financial burden for your children late in life.&quot;

I see other readers have pointed this out, but it was confusing and made me reread the paragraph and wonder if I misunderstood your philosophy.  I think it&#039;s worth fixing if that&#039;s not actually what you meant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A final note: if you haven’t saved adequately for college, you may end up being a financial burden for your children late in life.&#8221;</p>
<p>I see other readers have pointed this out, but it was confusing and made me reread the paragraph and wonder if I misunderstood your philosophy.  I think it&#8217;s worth fixing if that&#8217;s not actually what you meant.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854814</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854814</guid>
		<description>divajean-- you can use the 529 for any post-secondary vocational training... so culinary school, trapeze academies, art school, beauty school, computer certification and so on.  It is very difficult to do much when you only have a high school degree and no training after, even in vocational fields.  Paying for any of those is obviously not your responsibility, but the 529 is not just limited to use at community colleges and 4 year universities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>divajean&#8211; you can use the 529 for any post-secondary vocational training&#8230; so culinary school, trapeze academies, art school, beauty school, computer certification and so on.  It is very difficult to do much when you only have a high school degree and no training after, even in vocational fields.  Paying for any of those is obviously not your responsibility, but the 529 is not just limited to use at community colleges and 4 year universities.</p>
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		<title>By: almost there</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854802</link>
		<dc:creator>almost there</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 23:55:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854802</guid>
		<description>A recent article backing up what Honey was saying.

http://truthisliberty.blogspot.com/2010/02/ticking-college-time-bomb.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A recent article backing up what Honey was saying.</p>
<p><a href="http://truthisliberty.blogspot.com/2010/02/ticking-college-time-bomb.html" rel="nofollow">http://truthisliberty.blogspot.com/2010/02/ticking-college-time-bomb.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: almost there</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854780</link>
		<dc:creator>almost there</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 22:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854780</guid>
		<description>Our only child is graduating from college this spring. It was a pay as we went plan for us, no loans. But we realized that we would not be able to provide for more than one child based on our income so we didn&#039;t have any more children. Personal responsibility goes a long way in limiting the financial costs. I hope that parents will rebell in mass and refuse to pay the astronomical tuition increases and the tuition bubble bursts. The student loan outfits, colleges and businesses that glom off the parents putting themselves in debt for a dubious return on investment will have to make a sea change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our only child is graduating from college this spring. It was a pay as we went plan for us, no loans. But we realized that we would not be able to provide for more than one child based on our income so we didn&#8217;t have any more children. Personal responsibility goes a long way in limiting the financial costs. I hope that parents will rebell in mass and refuse to pay the astronomical tuition increases and the tuition bubble bursts. The student loan outfits, colleges and businesses that glom off the parents putting themselves in debt for a dubious return on investment will have to make a sea change.</p>
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		<title>By: divajean</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854751</link>
		<dc:creator>divajean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 21:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854751</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m with deRuiter on this. 

We are actively paying down our 15 year mortgage- we expect to be done with it at around mid year 8.

Money that would be going to mortage can then be put into retirement AND our kids schooling. 

I am doubtful that all our 4 will be going to college. My 7 yr old is not oriented to school and seems more into the arts, shows and crafting. Obviously a lot can change in the next 10 years, but I am thinking he is more likely to be a cake chef, an acrobat in Cirque du Soliel or something arty than he is to sit thru classes at college. A 529 is not in our equation for school saving- as others have said- you can&#039;t get at it if its not for schooling without major penalty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m with deRuiter on this. </p>
<p>We are actively paying down our 15 year mortgage- we expect to be done with it at around mid year 8.</p>
<p>Money that would be going to mortage can then be put into retirement AND our kids schooling. </p>
<p>I am doubtful that all our 4 will be going to college. My 7 yr old is not oriented to school and seems more into the arts, shows and crafting. Obviously a lot can change in the next 10 years, but I am thinking he is more likely to be a cake chef, an acrobat in Cirque du Soliel or something arty than he is to sit thru classes at college. A 529 is not in our equation for school saving- as others have said- you can&#8217;t get at it if its not for schooling without major penalty.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854696</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 19:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854696</guid>
		<description>Sandy, you&#039;re absolutely right about the PROFILE. Many private colleges use FAFSA and the Profile to determine aid. The profile asks all those questions Fafsa doesn&#039;t - like if you own a business, house, retirement funds, trusts, non-custodial parent assets, and more. On the flip side, it also gives you more wiggle room for possible expenses, like private school for younger siblings, large medical expenses and other reasons you might not be able to pay as much as Fafsa thinks you can.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sandy, you&#8217;re absolutely right about the PROFILE. Many private colleges use FAFSA and the Profile to determine aid. The profile asks all those questions Fafsa doesn&#8217;t &#8211; like if you own a business, house, retirement funds, trusts, non-custodial parent assets, and more. On the flip side, it also gives you more wiggle room for possible expenses, like private school for younger siblings, large medical expenses and other reasons you might not be able to pay as much as Fafsa thinks you can.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854657</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854657</guid>
		<description>I think our society is having a paradigm shift concerning when we should retire and what it will take to retire. With the current economic climate, and the inability for many baby boomers to retire due to lack of funds, I believe that society will move to a latter retirement age. I am in my late 20’s and I have no plans to retire until possibly 75 or latter. Personally, I want to remain a productive worker as long as possible. I also see the need that my parents and in-laws could possibly need my financial support as they get older. Since we are living longer we need to be prepared to work longer (or make a bunch of money).

The other paradigm shift that needs to happen is concerning college education. We have a belief in our society that you can not be financially successful without obtaining a college degree. Society needs to stop thinking that every person needs to go to college, or is even capable of attending college. I understand that many people think you need to attend some sort of college program, whether technical or junior college, to prepare you for the job market, but I see that more as a failure of our public school systems. We should raise the standards of public schools and help kids identify their true strengths and weaknesses, so then they can make an educated decision regarding their future. There are many careers that have decent pay and require little if any formal training; contractor, bookkeeper, receptionist, entrepreneur, a/c repair, and many more. These careers provide the opportunity for success while the training needed does not straddle the person with loads of debt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think our society is having a paradigm shift concerning when we should retire and what it will take to retire. With the current economic climate, and the inability for many baby boomers to retire due to lack of funds, I believe that society will move to a latter retirement age. I am in my late 20’s and I have no plans to retire until possibly 75 or latter. Personally, I want to remain a productive worker as long as possible. I also see the need that my parents and in-laws could possibly need my financial support as they get older. Since we are living longer we need to be prepared to work longer (or make a bunch of money).</p>
<p>The other paradigm shift that needs to happen is concerning college education. We have a belief in our society that you can not be financially successful without obtaining a college degree. Society needs to stop thinking that every person needs to go to college, or is even capable of attending college. I understand that many people think you need to attend some sort of college program, whether technical or junior college, to prepare you for the job market, but I see that more as a failure of our public school systems. We should raise the standards of public schools and help kids identify their true strengths and weaknesses, so then they can make an educated decision regarding their future. There are many careers that have decent pay and require little if any formal training; contractor, bookkeeper, receptionist, entrepreneur, a/c repair, and many more. These careers provide the opportunity for success while the training needed does not straddle the person with loads of debt.</p>
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		<title>By: Lily</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854652</link>
		<dc:creator>Lily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:49:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854652</guid>
		<description>Think of the phychological impact for both parents and children if the kids decided college isn&#039;t for them.  They may feel obligated to go to college to please the parents and will be resentful.  On the other spectrum, what if the children rebel and tell the parents to take a hike?  Disappointment and hurt feeling from the parents.

By the time small children of today grow up, our government would have grown as much as Europe&#039;s.  College will likely be free.  If not, let them find their own way - if they want college they can join the military or find their own scholarships or tuition assistance.

I have a daughter that dropped out of college and has been out of work for months.  My son dropped out of high school, got his GED, and is raking in $50K in this bad economy.

All the planning in the world isn&#039;t gonna change one thing:  individuals - including your children - have free will.  And they will likely use it.

Hindsight is 20/20.  I love my children but if I had to do it over again, I&#039;d get a puppy and a cat instead of children.  Animals fight less.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Think of the phychological impact for both parents and children if the kids decided college isn&#8217;t for them.  They may feel obligated to go to college to please the parents and will be resentful.  On the other spectrum, what if the children rebel and tell the parents to take a hike?  Disappointment and hurt feeling from the parents.</p>
<p>By the time small children of today grow up, our government would have grown as much as Europe&#8217;s.  College will likely be free.  If not, let them find their own way &#8211; if they want college they can join the military or find their own scholarships or tuition assistance.</p>
<p>I have a daughter that dropped out of college and has been out of work for months.  My son dropped out of high school, got his GED, and is raking in $50K in this bad economy.</p>
<p>All the planning in the world isn&#8217;t gonna change one thing:  individuals &#8211; including your children &#8211; have free will.  And they will likely use it.</p>
<p>Hindsight is 20/20.  I love my children but if I had to do it over again, I&#8217;d get a puppy and a cat instead of children.  Animals fight less.</p>
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		<title>By: Lucy O</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854647</link>
		<dc:creator>Lucy O</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854647</guid>
		<description>I am a grandparent who set up prepaid college funds for my 5 grandchildren when they were born.  Now all are out of high school, two in college using the pre-paid funds, two went one year and decided they did not want college and one still has not used his fund.  They have up to 20 years to use the prepaid funds and I hope they will all use them.  The advantage for them is between the pre-paid funds and academic scholarships, they have not had to take out any student loans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a grandparent who set up prepaid college funds for my 5 grandchildren when they were born.  Now all are out of high school, two in college using the pre-paid funds, two went one year and decided they did not want college and one still has not used his fund.  They have up to 20 years to use the prepaid funds and I hope they will all use them.  The advantage for them is between the pre-paid funds and academic scholarships, they have not had to take out any student loans.</p>
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		<title>By: Tracy</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854644</link>
		<dc:creator>Tracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 15:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854644</guid>
		<description>I find it interesting that you note that, &quot;I would never rely on future earnings to pay for college education,&quot; and yet it&#039;s OK to rely on future earnings to pay the mortgage?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it interesting that you note that, &#8220;I would never rely on future earnings to pay for college education,&#8221; and yet it&#8217;s OK to rely on future earnings to pay the mortgage?</p>
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		<title>By: Honey</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854639</link>
		<dc:creator>Honey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:35:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854639</guid>
		<description>Institutions all over the country are also replacing retiring tenure-track faculty with adjuncts, who teach twice as much for half the pay (although most are just as credentialed as TT faculty) and offer more and more online classes, not because they are pedagogically as effective as face-to-face classes (though they are, if done right) but because you can teach more students for a fraction of the cost (no building, a/c costs).  There are classes at my institutions with caps of 300-1000 for FTF instruction....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Institutions all over the country are also replacing retiring tenure-track faculty with adjuncts, who teach twice as much for half the pay (although most are just as credentialed as TT faculty) and offer more and more online classes, not because they are pedagogically as effective as face-to-face classes (though they are, if done right) but because you can teach more students for a fraction of the cost (no building, a/c costs).  There are classes at my institutions with caps of 300-1000 for FTF instruction&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Honey</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854637</link>
		<dc:creator>Honey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 14:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854637</guid>
		<description>@ #44 Jane - yes, tuition increased at the (public) institution that I work for by about 20% from Fall 2008 to Fall 2009, and every single salaried employee got furlough in 2009 - effectively cutting our annual pay by 10%.

We do not expect furlough this year (thank god) but there has not been an inflation/cost of living increase for any employee in over 3 years...and we expect tuition for Fall 2010 to go up again by about 20% - and this does not count our newly instituted &quot;economic recovery surcharge&quot; of $36/credit hour FOR EVERY SINGLE STUDENT.  They couldn&#039;t call it tuition because then it would be covered by financial aid, you see...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ #44 Jane &#8211; yes, tuition increased at the (public) institution that I work for by about 20% from Fall 2008 to Fall 2009, and every single salaried employee got furlough in 2009 &#8211; effectively cutting our annual pay by 10%.</p>
<p>We do not expect furlough this year (thank god) but there has not been an inflation/cost of living increase for any employee in over 3 years&#8230;and we expect tuition for Fall 2010 to go up again by about 20% &#8211; and this does not count our newly instituted &#8220;economic recovery surcharge&#8221; of $36/credit hour FOR EVERY SINGLE STUDENT.  They couldn&#8217;t call it tuition because then it would be covered by financial aid, you see&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jane</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854608</link>
		<dc:creator>Jane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854608</guid>
		<description>I largely agree with Honey that the tuition increases we currently see are unsustainable and will probably lead the education bubble to burst. I went to an exclusive private university in 1995. Tuition was $17,000, which seemed overpriced and incredible to me then. They just announced that for the 2010-2011 school year it will be $39,000! Considering that wages are stagnant or in some respects decreasing, how are such increases sustainable? Already such schools like the one I attended are really just for the elite and some scholarship attendees. But even public institutions are increasing their tuition faster than the rate of inflation. And the loan burdens that current students have just boggle my mind. They will be slaves to a loan payment for years to come with no ability to pursue their dreams (unless those dreams are high-paying) or make the mistakes that young people inevitably do without going into forbearance. I just hope the bubble bursts and begins to work itself out before my young sons make it to college.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I largely agree with Honey that the tuition increases we currently see are unsustainable and will probably lead the education bubble to burst. I went to an exclusive private university in 1995. Tuition was $17,000, which seemed overpriced and incredible to me then. They just announced that for the 2010-2011 school year it will be $39,000! Considering that wages are stagnant or in some respects decreasing, how are such increases sustainable? Already such schools like the one I attended are really just for the elite and some scholarship attendees. But even public institutions are increasing their tuition faster than the rate of inflation. And the loan burdens that current students have just boggle my mind. They will be slaves to a loan payment for years to come with no ability to pursue their dreams (unless those dreams are high-paying) or make the mistakes that young people inevitably do without going into forbearance. I just hope the bubble bursts and begins to work itself out before my young sons make it to college.</p>
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		<title>By: deRuiter</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854585</link>
		<dc:creator>deRuiter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 11:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854585</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s a lot of safety in paying off your mortgage, owning your home free and clear.  We hear about all the foreclosure, no one speaks about the large percentage of Americans who own houses which are paid in full, and whose owners have been smart enough not to strip out the equity for stupid things like boats, trips, fancy cars. By prepaying your mortgage, you save a lot in pretax dollars by not having to make all those years of payments. The years of payments you don&#039;t have to make to the mortgage company  mean the money that would have gone for payments can be invested or spent.  If you plan to move in less than five years you might not be so interested in this, but on the other hand, you will have more equity if you prepay.  Get an amortization schedule and see how much money you can save by sendibng extra money each month to pay down principal, it&#039;s an eye opener. It only really reaps great rewards to pay down the first half of the payments, or the first 2/3.  After that, the amount of principal is enormous, the interest negligible.  We are about to hit a rough patch economically as a country because the Feds and State govs are spending more than the Chinese and the rest of the world are financially able to finance.  Our country is bankrupt.  If you own your own home outright, YOU WILL HAVE SOMETHING OF VALUE which you can use.  If America can not continue to finance its debt (think Ponzi scheme) our economy will collapse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s a lot of safety in paying off your mortgage, owning your home free and clear.  We hear about all the foreclosure, no one speaks about the large percentage of Americans who own houses which are paid in full, and whose owners have been smart enough not to strip out the equity for stupid things like boats, trips, fancy cars. By prepaying your mortgage, you save a lot in pretax dollars by not having to make all those years of payments. The years of payments you don&#8217;t have to make to the mortgage company  mean the money that would have gone for payments can be invested or spent.  If you plan to move in less than five years you might not be so interested in this, but on the other hand, you will have more equity if you prepay.  Get an amortization schedule and see how much money you can save by sendibng extra money each month to pay down principal, it&#8217;s an eye opener. It only really reaps great rewards to pay down the first half of the payments, or the first 2/3.  After that, the amount of principal is enormous, the interest negligible.  We are about to hit a rough patch economically as a country because the Feds and State govs are spending more than the Chinese and the rest of the world are financially able to finance.  Our country is bankrupt.  If you own your own home outright, YOU WILL HAVE SOMETHING OF VALUE which you can use.  If America can not continue to finance its debt (think Ponzi scheme) our economy will collapse.</p>
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		<title>By: sewingirl</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854411</link>
		<dc:creator>sewingirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Feb 2010 01:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854411</guid>
		<description>This topic has been a sore spot for me for quite a while.  I understand the need to save for retirement, but I also see the need to contribute to your childs education if you want them to be successfull.  I have two daughters who attended college, one state one community.  They both worked part time, were full time students, and could not get enough in grants or fiancial aid the contimue if we hadn&#039;t chipped in.  We looked on it as an investment in their future and our future.  If they can&#039;t get a job paying a living wage, we could end up &quot;helping&quot; them for years to come.  If they have a great job, and we need a little help in our retirement, will I expect them to chip in?  Absolutely!  We did it for our parents, they understand that this is what families DO, they help each other as needed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This topic has been a sore spot for me for quite a while.  I understand the need to save for retirement, but I also see the need to contribute to your childs education if you want them to be successfull.  I have two daughters who attended college, one state one community.  They both worked part time, were full time students, and could not get enough in grants or fiancial aid the contimue if we hadn&#8217;t chipped in.  We looked on it as an investment in their future and our future.  If they can&#8217;t get a job paying a living wage, we could end up &#8220;helping&#8221; them for years to come.  If they have a great job, and we need a little help in our retirement, will I expect them to chip in?  Absolutely!  We did it for our parents, they understand that this is what families DO, they help each other as needed.</p>
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		<title>By: Honey</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854371</link>
		<dc:creator>Honey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854371</guid>
		<description>It seems to me that taking out loans is the definition of speculation, and there is a HUGE loan industry out there (private loans as well as public).  I would also say, if the student and/or the parents have to go into forbearance, or use the Income Contingent Repayment (ICR) plans or get to the point where your loans are discharged before they&#039;re repaid, then that means that a) the taxpayers are the ones paying for your speculation, and b) you are never going to have a high standard of living because as soon as you get a better paying job, you&#039;ll have to increase your payments, and you&#039;ll only ever be making interest only payments.  Earning more money over the course of your lifetime is irrelevant if you can&#039;t afford your payments when you get out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems to me that taking out loans is the definition of speculation, and there is a HUGE loan industry out there (private loans as well as public).  I would also say, if the student and/or the parents have to go into forbearance, or use the Income Contingent Repayment (ICR) plans or get to the point where your loans are discharged before they&#8217;re repaid, then that means that a) the taxpayers are the ones paying for your speculation, and b) you are never going to have a high standard of living because as soon as you get a better paying job, you&#8217;ll have to increase your payments, and you&#8217;ll only ever be making interest only payments.  Earning more money over the course of your lifetime is irrelevant if you can&#8217;t afford your payments when you get out.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854368</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854368</guid>
		<description>&quot;My main point is that unless you are very, very strategic, the cost of a BA has already exceeded the amount you appreciate as a result of your education – WHETHER OR NOT you take out a loan. So why would you take out a loan? &quot;

This logic makes no sense and is also untrue on average.  The average appreciation is somewhere around a million dollars (that includes opportunity costs of not working f/t during school), the cost of 4 years is only 200K full tuition at the most expensive fancy private school and much less at less fancy schools.  There are assumptions you can make about rate of return on investments, but assuming credit constraints (e.g. you don&#039;t have that 200K lump sum at age 18) and subsidized loans etc. you come out ahead on average with the college degree and a pretty large amount of loans.

I also seriously doubt there&#039;s a tuition bubble that is going to burst.  Education costs are genuinely increasing and states are choosing to subsidize education less.  It&#039;s not like there&#039;s rampant speculation going on.  I&#039;ll believe that health care costs will decrease before higher education costs (which is to say, not likely).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;My main point is that unless you are very, very strategic, the cost of a BA has already exceeded the amount you appreciate as a result of your education – WHETHER OR NOT you take out a loan. So why would you take out a loan? &#8221;</p>
<p>This logic makes no sense and is also untrue on average.  The average appreciation is somewhere around a million dollars (that includes opportunity costs of not working f/t during school), the cost of 4 years is only 200K full tuition at the most expensive fancy private school and much less at less fancy schools.  There are assumptions you can make about rate of return on investments, but assuming credit constraints (e.g. you don&#8217;t have that 200K lump sum at age 18) and subsidized loans etc. you come out ahead on average with the college degree and a pretty large amount of loans.</p>
<p>I also seriously doubt there&#8217;s a tuition bubble that is going to burst.  Education costs are genuinely increasing and states are choosing to subsidize education less.  It&#8217;s not like there&#8217;s rampant speculation going on.  I&#8217;ll believe that health care costs will decrease before higher education costs (which is to say, not likely).</p>
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		<title>By: Abby</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2010/02/02/retirement-or-education/comment-page-2/#comment-854356</link>
		<dc:creator>Abby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Feb 2010 23:06:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=4939#comment-854356</guid>
		<description>@Sandy, When I started undergrad 7 years ago, I got the best financial aid offer from a private liberal arts school.  I didn’t qualify for need-based aid, but I received a merit-based award that covered the full cost of tuition.  Even with the increased living expenses associated with attending the out-of-state private school, it worked out to be cheaper than the in-state public alternative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sandy, When I started undergrad 7 years ago, I got the best financial aid offer from a private liberal arts school.  I didn’t qualify for need-based aid, but I received a merit-based award that covered the full cost of tuition.  Even with the increased living expenses associated with attending the out-of-state private school, it worked out to be cheaper than the in-state public alternative.</p>
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