Comments on: Review: 1/2 Price Living

By: oilandgarlic

oilandgarlic — Thu, 11 Feb 2010 00:17:22 +0000

I’m glad that many commenters brought up the issue of lost income over a lifetime. Too many women I know only factor in the loss of income for the 2 – 5 years they plan to stay home. Most of my friends are older when they have kids so they don’t realize that they’re missing out on prime earning years. By the time they re-enter the workforce (late 30s to mid-40s), their skills are rusty, they have to compete against eager young graduates and they face ageism in the workplace.

By: kirstie

kirstie — Wed, 10 Feb 2010 11:22:02 +0000

@Alicia, anybody can shove laundry in the machine and take it out afterwards – many men without wives do this every day, and make sure that they have something to eat when they get home from work. Assuming that you don’t have other children, I think his problems are not being caused by his sex, but by being lazy or depression. (Equally, many women suffer from depression and some women take advantage of a partner doing everything for them.)

Men can and do co-ordinate playdates, and unless there are other difficulties like disability which you haven’t disclosed in your post, why would he need help in the house if he has children at school and isn’t working? Has he just got into the habit of acting as though he is still coping with baby twins, and hasn’t changed his ways now that the situation has become far easier?

By: katie

katie — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 22:18:19 +0000

I don’t see how this is at all possible if both parents work in comptetive fields. Take time off from being a doctor or lawyer and you’ll have a hard time getting promoted. Good luck getting tenure if you put being a professor on hiatus for a few years.

What if the breadwinner loses his or her job?

By: Nicole

Nicole — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:18:42 +0000

Alicia– We hired “Daddy’s helpers” on the days my husband was home with the baby, and mother’s helpers on the days I was home. Try advertising at your college or local community college, then you won’t have to worry about what parents think.

And someone with an EE can surely come up with some way to get back in the labor market after a 10 year absence, even if it’s teaching physics at the local high school. Computer programming is probably an easier way to get back in though, requiring less educational training. Still, studies among women re-entrants show that getting new education is possibly the best way to increase self-esteem and confidence in skills.

And man, it’s been 10 years… maybe you should be having these conversations now instead of waiting another 8 years. You sound very unhappy and shouldn’t want that resentment to build even more.

By: Traci

Traci — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 16:09:33 +0000

Toggling between messages 19 and 21 above…

Thanks, DivaJean for writing back. Your input was valuable!

I was unclear, but I was asking Trent about how he factored in her work time off and re-entry into the field.

By: kirstie

kirstie — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 14:53:46 +0000

I think you have to factor in how the SAH partner could return to full time work so that the roles could be reversed if necessary because of illness or redundancy.

Also, although it is expensive to go to work and many people may find that their annual salary doesn’t cover much of the cost of childcare in that year, the true financial comparison is the effect of working/not-working on your life time earnings.

Having said that, I think its great to take the opportunity to look after your children full-time – its just that there is a big difference between taking a ‘sabatical’ from work for a couple of years and leaving work with no idea how you might ever support your family again.

By: koilie

koilie — Tue, 09 Feb 2010 04:24:30 +0000

DH and I are really committed to the idea of me going back to work (as a science teacher) when our family is ready for it and not because we desperately need to for financial reasons. So when we had our first baby (3.5 years ago) and i stopped work we wrote a very comprehensive budget and have stuck to it. We have even had multiple holidays and bought a second car (cash) and a very small investment property (which pays more than it costs) – and we’ve never gone without stuff we needed and rarely without stuff we’ve wanted.

When we were on two incomes (about $110K combined) we spent it *all* and now that we’re on one income ($70K) we have absolutely no idea what my income was spent on!

In hindsight we should have been more careful to not waste that opportunity while we had it

By: Nicole

Nicole — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 19:31:27 +0000

Stephanie– It isn’t too late! In my work (I study the labor supply of workers over 50 for my job) I’ve talked with tons and tons of women who start their first real careers, getting education and the whole bit, at age 50 after the kids were grown and gone. (Oddly, many of them go into human resources, but there are plenty in other fields too.) Start taking classes now! I know women who started with an associate’s degree at 50 and ended up getting a masters after a few years of work and would recommend that anybody in their situation do the same. You can still have a career and find something that you love doing. What do you enjoy?

By: Alicia

Alicia — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:53:53 +0000

The past ten years of our “Stay-At-Home-Dad of twin” situation has been very stressful for me, but it’s my fault – poor communication.

He doesn’t see dirty dishes. I come home after a 12 hour shift and see unsanitary conditions. I say nothing and clean up.

Kids do homework in front of Cartoon network. I see ghetto conditions – he sees them doing homework.

I’d come home to babies in onesies sitting in front of the tv and be horrified at the sub par level of daycare going on at home, but said nothing because he had their best interests at heart.

I’m out of the house for 14 hours, return at 8pm to kids looking for dinner. I say nothing and start cooking.

I say nothing and do all the laundry, grocery shopping and cleaning. He would do these things, but it wouldn’t occur to him on his own, I’d need to first train him, then tell him, then praise him.

He doesn’t volunteer in the schools, and it’s weird coordinating playdates with other Moms that are home – because he’s a guy. It’s NOT the same as a Mom staying home, just isn’t, no matter what they say about equality – he’s not going to be a girl scout leader, and no one in their right mind is going to let their daughter come over as a “daddy’s helper” for the afternoon.

It causes other people to build resentment because they see the poor wife working and the guy hanging around at home. That is what they see – whether he is contributing to the household or not.

Our expectations are different. Things that bother me don’t bother him.

Now I feel shackled. I earn the income and provide the benefits. It would be difficult for him to jump back into the market (an electrical engineer) after 10 years out of his field.

I am resentful for missing out on my children but
I know it is good that they’ve bonded with Dad.

I am happy to live frugally and scoff at my coworker’s crazy spending habits, but leaving the security of my job of 23 years feels scary and risky. I’m not sure I can allow myself to depend on someone else. It would take a lot of planning and discussion.

I wish I never made the stay at home arrangements in the first place, or made it somehow more “fair”, but still am grateful for a one income family lifestyle.

I’m confident it’ll all work out and it’s not as bad as it feels to me – just sharing some of the pitfalls.

By: Diana @ frontyardfoodie

Diana @ frontyardfoodie — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 18:13:42 +0000

This is a great resource it looks like. I’m going to buy this book right now as my husband and I are working out how I’ll be able to stay at home when I have my baby.

Thanks for the review!

By: divajean

divajean — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 17:49:43 +0000

Were you asking me, Traci?

Believe me, many jobs could be found at the level she was making when she left her job. I am not saying this to be nasty, but in the industry she is in (working in dayhab support services for adults w/ mental retardation), jobs will be there and the money never is and never will be great.

And yeah, without the opportunity for my partner to be on my health insurance, it would not be anything we could consider- we would have had to stop adding kids after 2, instead of the 4 we really wanted.

By: Susie

Susie — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:52:59 +0000

I also stayed at home with my children while they were growing up. It was wonderful- I also shopped at garage sales, cooked at home, etc. I wish I had at least worked part time to maintain my job skills as my marriage fell apart. I found myself at the age of 42 going back to school in order to obtain decent employment. I did suffer financially and had to use a food bank at one point. Staying at home is a good idea but I do wish I had thought about what would happen if my marriage failed, as far as employment, retirement and insurance. I do find it is one part of the equation that I never see considered and everything must be considered – no matter what your gender.

By: Traci

Traci — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:40:29 +0000

How did you, or did you, factor the potential loss of status for your wife in her career market? Will she be able to re-enter at her current level upon returning to the marketplace?

That insurance issue is huge, too.

By: Emily Lauren

Emily Lauren — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:37:16 +0000

To add to your quibble — I think it’s not just men who are likely to be put-off by the ‘mommy club’ language… it’s sexist and offensive and off-putting for men AND women.

By: Stephanie

Stephanie — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 16:24:16 +0000

I stayed home with our four kids because I could not make enough to pay day care and when we tried working opposite shifts it was too hard on both of us. I was thrilled because I did not want to be away from our kids and my husband really did like me being home and would take an occasional second job when we need a car repaired , or wanted extra money for something, and I would babysit or do crafts for money whenever I could to help out as well. It was tight most of the time, but we made it work. We threw away a lot less and made things work for as long as possible.
Our kids are 20 to 29 so one could agrue things are differant now, but I have a daughter that stays home with thier two kids while her husband brings home the only paycheck and though it can be tight they are happier with her home with the kids.
It can be done, even today if people adjust thier priorities.
You might not be able to have the house you want, but one you can afford. You might have to rent longer and buy later. We did not own a house until our mid thirties. You may have to cook from scratch more and not eat out, and may have to have less stuff.
We shopped yard sales and our four kids always had a closet stuffed full of name brand clothes that were very nice. I never bought any that did not look new just washed a couple of times. They had plenty of toys and when they got money for thier birthday or Christmas they would take that money to yard sales where they could get a lot more for thier money. We had everything we needed and some of what we wanted but did have to go without a lot. We did not own our first new car until our mid forties and that will be our last once we saw how the value dropped like a rock.
So, it can be done. I think easier then people think, if they are willing to put staying home as a priority and are willing to do whatever it takes to make it work. You really have to want it though for it to work.
The benefits are many. I was home when my husband was, so we had a lot of time together which is something that was and still is important to us. Our kids had mom home and healthy food because I made it all from scratch. They never had to go to day care and were home in bed when sick. I cannot tell you how many times I watched a sick kid for a working mom because the day care would not take them that day. I never would take a very sick kid ,nor was I ever asked to.
I am not attacking working moms at all. We all have to chose what is best for us and that is what we wanted. I missed out on a career and at fifty this year I am still at home and have no skills to get a job. So, that would be the only down side and if I had it to do over, I would have slowly taken classes over time to get a degree so that by the time the kids were grown I could have had a career.
So, it can be done, if it is what you want and if you can accept all of it. If you are a person that loves to work, and will be lonely and isolated and bored, than do not do it. I have known many working moms who said that is why they just cannot stay home. But if you long to be home and live a simplier life, I felt for me, it was worth that sacrifice and though at times it is hard, and money can be tight, there is a lot of support online now, that was not available to me. If the internet had been available to me as a young stay at home mom, it would have made a world of differance.

By: divajean

divajean — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 14:29:21 +0000

My partner has been a stay at home mom since our 3rd child came to us. At that time, my oldest was in all day school, but my second was in daycare. Having 2 in daycare would have cost us more than she was bringing home (working for a non profit service agency) so it was pretty apparent what needed to happen. Although we live close to all the grandparents, we didn’t want to put them in the place of *having* to provide childcare, though they had been helping out with the afterschool time care of our eldest. We made out an extensive plan as to getting ready for her to be a stay at home mom- mostly involving getting a new mini van for car seats and having it paid for cash on the barrel head. We were also lucky in that my employer had changed the policy towards health insurance towards domestic partners, allowing her to go on my insurance plan rather than us having to pay for her policy (however, I do have to pay taxes on the “added value” of having this type of policy). I think that the main thing that held it all together was that we were of the same frugal mindset with the end goal of having a parent home. As I’ve said before though, we have to pinch a penny until Lincoln is crying to make it work.

By: Leah Finnegan

Leah Finnegan — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:53:24 +0000

I decided to stay at home this past year after the birth of my first child. Although the decision has certainly changed the way my husband and I spend our money and has definitely made us tighten our budget considerably, it has also opened our eyes to how much money we simply wasted before. At the very least we know now how little we can live off of and still be perfectly comfortable and fed and clothed just fine. In fact, because we have to evaluate our finances more often we do a much better job of paying off debt and saving than we did before. Unfortunatly, sometimes the more you make the more you spend. Also, we see how much we could do with all that “extra” money if I ever did decide to go back to work. Not everyone can stand being at home all day and I understand that, but I haved loved experiencing my son’s first year first hand.

By: Moby Homemaker

Moby Homemaker — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:23:23 +0000

I am an “At Home Dad”….not by choice. Being laid off has forced my wife and I to explore many of htese issues. I loved the quote about “tonig down the Mommy speak”!!!! I avoid “Mommy Speak” at all costs!!!! lol

By: frugalscholar

frugalscholar — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:15:21 +0000

Amy D of Tightwad Gazette fame also considers this issue.

By: Angie

Angie — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 03:40:33 +0000

I wonder how your family would do it, considering you have your insurance through your wife’s work. Since you have a pre-ex, you’d probably be rejected from the individual market. Would you go without insurance for yourself?