It’s interesting to me that I assumed you were intending the US school system, and yet, you were referring to the Canadian one. I understand your point of view, and you make some very valid points. I’m not in disagreement with your assessment of the Canadian (or American) school system – there are many things that need work, I agree. I also believe that the system as it is set up is one of the reasons so many gifted teachers burn out so quickly.

A good response. I understand better what your argument is now. Thanks.

My dad works for the energy business and there is a direct relation in what I want to accomplish career wise with what he does in the energy industry. I can’t help but think what advantage I’ve missed out on by being out on the loop on what my dad does for a living. There is a a TON I could of learned from him over the years to help me a long but instead I’m just now trying to learn everything on my own when he has the experience to teach me a number of things.

I’ve decided to make sure my kids really know what I do for a living and make them a part of my career.

Kids must be at one level in all subjects, and they must go at a certain pace. You’re not allowed to skip kids, so the quicker ones get bored. Additional reading isn’t a solution – that’s just filling time. I usually had some other project of my own to fill time. What these kids need is to move on to more challenging things.
On the other end of the scale, you aren’t allowed to fail kids, so a kid that completely doesn’t understand grade five math is passed into grade six, where they will continue to understand less and less, and be unable to keep up because they just need a slower pace to learn.

You as a teacher might not be attempting to indoctrinate your students, but a good chunk of modern social studies is opinion. The textbooks alone, before a teacher has to say anything.

You’re right about the push for the A. And it has led to testing as a measure of success, and incredible grade inflation – because everyone believes they are above average, and a B+ should be attained just for showing up and completing work.

I’m not trying to say that teachers suck. I’m agreeing that the school system exists primarily as a way to keep kids occupied – not teach them real things, or prepare them for much of anything in life afterwards. The system is great at what it does, but what it does is not education.

And actually, I’m broadly condemning the Canadian school system – I didn’t attend school in the States. But I’m not aware of many huge differences, so I guess I’m probably still condemning the American system with it.

Thanks for speaking up for teachers. I had some wonderful teachers at all levels of the educational system, and my kids did too. Sure, there were apathetic ones, but I often found that they were burned out by the kinds of “I just want the ‘A’” people you describe. Trent’s apprenticeship idea is good, but these good things can happen within schools as well.

When faced with these teachers, I told my kids, “Just go up and ask them if there is additional reading you can do on this topic.” In almost every case the teacher was overjoyed at finding someone who actually wanted to learn.

I had hoped more people would stand up for teachers. Of course there are “bad” high schools and teachers who aren’t doing their jobs well, but before issuing broad condemnation we as parents and citizens should look at our own responsibilities for helping to improve education.

It sounds like you had a bad experience in high school, and I certainly cannot speak of all high school teachers, but I try very hard to make sure that my students are not bored and are not simply memorizing facts by rote. I go out of my way to create assessments that require them to draw conclusions about the bigger picture from a wide variety of sources, let them know when I’m spouting opinion as opposed to fact (and from what information I’ve drawn my opinion), and encourage them to use critical thinking not just in my class, but in all their classes. I bristle at broadly swiped condemnation of the US school system. Most teachers I know try to meet these criteria, and often in an environment in which students and families don’t care about the context, they just want the “A”. I wonder if the schools have shaped society, or if society has shaped the schools.

I do believe that learning is valuable in and of itself. I enjoy learning myself. But as a high school student, I did almost all my learning on my own time, from books and people and the study of things that interested me. Often while waiting for the math class to move on to something new and challenging. That challenge rarely came from school.

Of course it’s not “practical” in some people’s view, but there is value to things that society doesn’t consider “work.” School itself is supposed to be an apprenticeship for these kinds of things. Band and choir didn’t make me want a career in music, but I’m glad I learned to play and appreciate music. I never did anything with chemistry, but to this day I’m proud of my A in that class. Sports, art, clubs, marching band… I did many apprenticeships–it was just called studying and practicing.

I realize, though, that this isn’t the experience of many kids, and for them I agree that other options would be great. I just don’t want to see anyone urged or forced into a workplace orientation at a young age, during–ideally–the years when kids should have the freedom to learn without the necessity of focusing on the workplace.

Starting in highschool would be even better.

I would like to comment on the Shris thought about being an apprentice to your parent…..yes that’s awesome for learning the life skills you’ll need outside of work (parenting, taking care of a house, cooking, etc) but that won’t help you professionally unless your parents train you in a profession.

First point: You can’t legally pay less than minimum wage, probably something that #24 Leah@5:46 knows when she suggested that you contact an attorney.

Second point: Minimum wage legislation is a major factor in this whole situation: most young teenagers don’t have the skills to command $7.25 per hour (even higher in some states, see http://www.laborlawcenter.com/t-State-Minimum-Wage-Rates.aspx?gclid=CNCu_P6RrKECFUNJ5wodk30pEw for a list). Employers have to consider costs versus benefits when hiring resources, and can’t afford to hire young teens if they don’t bring at least $7.25 per hour of benefits to the job.If potential employers were allowed to hire teens at less than $7.25 then a lot more teenagers would be able to get jobs, including apprenticeships, and would gain the skills needed to be productive, feel like (and actually be) an active member of society, and move up the pay ladder.

Third point: Minimum wage laws hurt inner-city, minority teens even more than they hurt suburban kids, both because the inner-city minority teens bring fewer skills to the labor market (for whatever reasons, including poor schools) and because suburban kids have more opportunities for unpaid internships. To level the playing field Congress is now trying to force firms to make ALL internships paid internships, rather than to level it by eliminating the minimum wage for youth. This will just lead to the unintended consequence that even more teens will become disaffected.

Some things are caught more than taught, and the only way to catch the idea is to be around people who know what they’re doing.

Love this post.

We are very, very against tracking in this country, and while I understand philosophically why this is the case, I don’t always agree with it. My husband was saying just the other day that he wished he would have had the opportunity to learn a trade through just this type of apprenticeship situation when he was in high school. He feels as though he wasted a lot of time before figuring out his interests, and wishes he had been more productive.