I think that I am offended for the first time by you, Trent, and I have been reading your blog for years!

Women’s clothing is in a whole different category than men’s clothing anyway. And you have shown that you aren’t as knowledgeable about it than other topics.

To join in the conversation… I’m a woman and I wasn’t offended at all by the swimsuit post. In fact, if I didn’t care about what I was wearing I’d totally go in for the “get a pair of board shorts, cheap bikini top, and a teeshirt” thing. As it is I like the swim suits I already have, and I don’t go swimming enough to justify getting something new.

I think some of the confusion has to do with what people value. The people responding to this comment are not people who particularly value swimming. It’s not their main hobby. It’s just something they want to do with their kids. If it was something they were passionate about there’d be no question that spending the money was worth it.

The thing is, they still have swimming related values. They do value being comfortable. They do value being modest. I bet there’s a good bit of wanting to remain inconspicuous too since they’re not that comfortable with how their bodies look. (I think the last statement is fair. Take a look at all the “I’m not a 17 year old with no breasts” comments.) Even if board shorts, a not that supportive swimming bra from Walmart, and a teeshirt was decent the fear is that they’d be drawing attention to themselves. They just want to splash around with their kids, not get stared at by the other adults at the pool. Maybe it’s an irrational fear, but I think it’d take a lot of courage for someone who’s not used to acting unconventionally.

If you want to remain inconspicuous and have proper support and coverage, it’s wise to spend a goodly amount of money on swimwear. It’s hard for us to admit, though, that these things are actually wants, not needs. It’s also hard for us to admit that wanting to be inconspicuous is still vanity. When I hear the word vain, I think ostentatious, but it’s still vain to spend a lot of money to try to fit in.

Also, I remember in Europe the women going around topless weren’t the youngins.

And, yes, women’s clothes are often stupidly made and priced.

16 times.

That’s how many times the phrase “yeast infection” appeared in the comments section of this post (not counting this one).

That’s gotta be a record for a personal finance blog.

Oh, and Trent, I know as a policy you don’t post in the comments to your blog entries, but I respect what you did with this one. I think you deserved a little bit of heat for the original poorly-worded advice, and the wiggling and back-pedaling that followed, but you eventually manned up and admitted you were wrong. I respect that, and I think a lot of the criticism you received was excessive.

If you can show me where I can get cup-sized swimwear very cheaply, I’d be really interested. It’s not an issue of ‘comfort’ – that’s like saying a pair of shoes as opposed to no shoes is mere vanity, because you can still walk barefoot if you really want to. If I went swimming once a year, I’d still need the swimsuit that fits me properly. Women here are not talking about performance swimwear, or designer swimwear – merely an item of clothing that does its job. Unfortunately, bras, and by extension swimwear, is not something women should skimp on if they can avoid it.

I am so short sighted that I don’t even know what I look like when in the water, so it’s nothing to do with vanity. I don’t have the option of swimming in a private pool, so no skinny-dipping for me. Besides, it would actually be painful, and possibly cause permanent damage.

Look at the difference between a bra and a supportive swimsuit, and you’ll see why women don’t swim in their bras. Also, some women have religious needs that mean they can’t wear a skimpy swimsuit – Muslim or Orthodox women, for example.

I find this whole argument slightly bizarre, to be honest. I think it might be prudent for you to have a lady guest blogger to write about ways women can be frugal with women-only expenses – I learned through trial and error that the cheapest sanitary protection is not always best, but there are other areas where it is possible to save money and not live up to what society thinks women ‘need’ to do. I think it would be really helpful.

Furthermore, a good bathing suit will last you a very long time (if you can still fit in it year after year, of course). I had to throw out a $10 Target clearance rack suit after one summer, but I have a $50 suit that I’ve had for 9 summers that is still holding up fine. That’s clearly the more frugal option.

The original commenter just meant to emphasize that certain people enjoy saying that it is easy to be frugal, when it is actually quite difficult for certain people. A man can easily meet his WANT of swimming in a public place for $3. A woman simply cannot for the reasons mentioned here. Same would go for eating (diabetics or special diets may be more expensive), shoes (wide shoes cost more), etc. She was just asking that you acknowledge that some of your frugal tips are only applicable to certain groups and not to others.

I will not stop reading your blog because of a few ignorant remarks, but I do wish you would acknowledge your mistakes rather than try to defend them with ridiculous comments.

I agree that a follow up post would be a good idea (perhaps under the subject “some frugality tips don’t apply to everyone”) with input from your wife on this subject.

Interestingly, I just returned from a shopping trip looking for a new suit. I visited 3 stores and found nothing that fit me appropriately at any price, and returned home in tears (and I am a size 4-6, supposedly the “ideal”). Meanwhile, my husband called me, told me his size, and I picked one up off the rack for $10. Just to give you an idea of the differences. In the future, please be more sensitive and stick to giving advice in areas that you have experience.

I looked the post you mentioned. I’d like to point out a couple of things. First of all, NONE of the advice that Trent’s doctor gave to him (that Trent listed) included weight loss. I absolutely agree that doing those things the doctor recommended (such as eating green vegetables) is healthy. However, one could do those healthy things without the aim to lose weight.

Second of all, Trent suggests Michael Jackson’s death as something that inspired him to lose weight. I don’t know about you, but Michael Jackson looked pretty gaunt to me. I’m sure being overweight was not a cause of his death. So, I don’t think there is a direct logical connection between Michael Jackson’s death and Trent wanting to lose weight. I get the point he is trying to make, but the logic is missing a step.

Plenty of marketing tells us we ‘NEED’ to lose weight to be healthy. But is that really a “need” or a “want”? Sure, many things that people do in attempts to lose weight can be considered healthy (although other things might not be), but certainly, one does not ‘need’ to lose weight to still eat 5 vegetables a day, get enough sleep, get exercise, and not take drugs. Plenty of larger women on here, who have talked about spending more money to get better-fitting swimsuits, are probably avid swimmers and would really be insulted if we called them unhealthy.

Changing one’s appearances to give the “look” of being healthy might be akin to buying a $70 swimsuit. If losing weight is a high priority for him, that’s fine for him, but let’s not judge other people as “vain” for buying fashionable swimsuits, and then act as though losing weight (another change in appearance) is a “need.” Let’s instead talk about budgeting and setting priorities – which would probably be a more effective and universal message – without insulting people for their values.

Certainly in a post that talks about “vanity” and “response to marketing,” it is not unthinkable to bring up other things that affect our body image aside from swimsuit marketing.

http://xkcd.com/386/

“You do not have to swim. If ladies swim, they will need to do so in a way that is legal and safe- i.e. not exposing breasts and not causing yeast infections. Because of this, many women will require an expensive swimsuit. Women who do not value swimming may want to consider eliminating all swimming, so that they don’t have to buy an expensive suit.”

What I actually hear you saying is:

“If women only swim once in a while, they should consider doing it in a t-shirt and shorts.”

I feel that this suggestion is not appropriate, because it encourages women to act illegally and unsafely. I can’t imagine that you would encourage people to act illegally and unsafely, but I don’t see any acknowledgment that *any* act of immersed swimming for a woman (clearly a want for most people) requires an expensive garment, and it is not appropriate to swim even occasionally in an illegal or unsafe manner.

Stop imprinting your own negative ideas on other people. Just stop. It’s really pathetic and sad.

First, I cannot swim in a short and a T-shirt. I can get wet very well, and stay wet even better in a T-shirt and a short.
If I was on a totally private beach, and I wanted to get wet, I would not evenneed the short and the T-shirt. However, if I wanted to swim I would need a good fitting swimsuit. Last time I bought one, I bought a custom made one, which costed about $100. That (naturally) fitted perfectly. Any suits available in stores that would have somewhat fitted me, were in the same price range. Be glad your body has a standard size, that saves a lot of money.

Trent, if you want some cooking equipment, I hear those pots and black kettles are going on sale!

It will get site traffic up at any rate.

Good luck.

I’d like to add that even psychologists do not agree on any one list of human needs. Sure, you mention physical needs such as food, water, and clothing–but there’s also psychological needs like love and esteem. What one defines as a need is different across cultures and even within a society. In addition, the appropriate/correct way to fulfill one’s needs is subjective. When you begin to categorize needs vs. wants you are doing so based on the resources available to you and your own perspective. If you don’t want to offend others you shouldn’t define needs or wants; instead, encourage individuals to further analyze their choices. What may be true for you, may not be true for someone else.