Comments on: Shallow Bottoms and Deep Bottoms

By: Annie

Annie — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 16:19:05 +0000

I have also noticed that it’s a constant thread of articles about failing and pulling yourself back up responsibily. Don’t worry about what others think, don’t buy this to please others ,etc.. I read it and think ok YES this is all true but everyone has heard this a million times. I would love to see more real life examples of people in debt that took action to payoff their debt and now are successful, what measures they took, they might have an idea we haven’t heard about… i like real life examples of winners. There is nothing wrong with the Question and Answer section where you help people in need of guidance but i would like to see some articles on people you know that are actually successful. So far it seems that all you write about is failure,people going through issues where they take on debt they can’t afford,etc…I hope you don’t take offense to this, we are just trying to make your post more welcoming to audiences.

By: SKS

SKS — Mon, 20 Jun 2011 22:52:42 +0000

#31 Michael: THANK YOU for your post — it makes no sense for the grumblers to keep reading the post, since their “suggestions” are just complaints, and add nothing to the content. I’ve been reading Trent’s blogs and the comments for a couple of months now; enjoy most of the blogs (just take what I can use, gratefully, and leave the rest) and a lot of the comments, but am amazed by the negativity in some of the posts. I can already tell who wrote some of them without checking first! There are thousands of blogs…find one you like (or at least pick on someone else).

By: tb

tb — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 18:10:41 +0000

@#11 he says some people not most. he didn’t shift, you did.
you should try reading it again without so much prejudice.
ACTUALLY! what he actually says is “This general story matches, in some way, almost every financial turnaround I’ve ever seen. ”
general, almost and some. not every.not all. many, not most.

By: Kathryn

Kathryn — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 17:43:14 +0000

People are all so different due to temperament and training.

I don’t think we ever came close to a “bottom, ” but we did reach a point where we said, “I don’t like where this is going. We need to change.” We were never deeply in debt, we had money to pay bills, but we could see that we were making choices that could lead to trouble and we wanted to make different choices before things became difficult.

Ii bless the day that i found Trent’s blog. I’ve been reading for 2 years now and it has helped me be mindful and make the changes i need to make. I’m not sure i had the “tools” to do this before.

I like that he shares values and the way he looks at things. I also can see that it would be a turn off for folks who come strictly to deal with finances and are looking for financial advice.

It is hard sometimes to know how to help. We are rather involved with a family in crisis. Our interest is in an unofficial mentoring of the 3 kids. The problem is that we see the parents making all kinds of decisions that are not healthy or helpful. I don’t think they want to hear it from us, and i’m afraid they have neither money or the knowledge to make the changes themselves.

We HAVE to tell ourselves that we have to let them work this out. We are willing to assist, if asked, in some ways. The mother approached us about doing a marriage mentoring (going thru a marriage book we recommended). After discussing it, we agreed with some reservations and some boundaries. We said, “You may not like what we have to say,” and that was enough. They didn’t even want to hear it. (Mama wanted us to say, “You’re 100% right and he’s 100% wrong” and when we couldn’t do that, she lost interest.)

People have to be willing and motivated to change before it will happen. I don’t think Trent is saying that everyone will reach this place (of drowning) before seeking help, but there sure are a lot of people like that. It IS hard to stand by and watch.

By: djac99

djac99 — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 17:18:35 +0000

Thanks for this timely post. It gave me insight into how to provide effective help to a young adult in my life.

By: Jake

Jake — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 17:15:47 +0000

I think this is real good advice about helping others. I find that people have a great deal of pride and mask there problems until they can trust you. Once a person can trust you, and that can come by having them over and providing a meal for them, you can give them hypotheticals. Discuss your own goals and ask them to share theirs. Then ask them to hold you accountable for your goals and you will do the same for them. This is mentorship without them even knowing it!! It will raise there expectation of themselves, hence shallowing there bottoms.

By: Johanna

Johanna — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 14:46:54 +0000

@tb: Congratulations on reading the first sentence of the post. Now, please read the rest of it. Specifically, the parts where he says:

“you’re PROBABLY not going to be able to help them much at all until they reach their bottom, whether it’s shallow or it’s deep.” (With the “probably,” he’s shifted from talking about an indeterminate “many” people to *most* people.)

and:

“You’ve GOT TO wait for that bottom and you’ve GOT TO hope that the bottom isn’t too deep.” (So now he’s saying that this “bottoming” phenomenon does apply to everyone.)

By: tb

tb — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 14:07:07 +0000

you negatives do realize that he said “For MANY people, making a significant change…” He doesn’t say ALL.

@#11 Really? you had to point that out?

Actually, trees make up a forest. There are many kinds of forests and they all have trees. Some are different than others, but they do all have them. Many people can’t see the forest at all because they spend so much time looking at one tree. Others can see the forest just fine.

By: deRuiter

deRuiter — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 12:07:51 +0000

#16 Kevin, “PayDay lenders are explictly exempt from that limit, and can charge much higher interest. Ain’t capitalism grand?” Evidently payday lenders provide a service which people want and need. With capitalism, if you provide a (legal) service which people need, and establish a rate they will willingly pay, you can make a profit. If you offer to sell goods or services which people don’t want, or you charge too high a price, you will not get customers, you will not earn a profit, your business will fail. No one has to go to payday lenders, options include: borrow from Kevin (who will not get his money back, most likely), get a part time job, pick up aluminum beverage cans off the street and recycle them for cash, do overtime at work, cut out cable tv, stop eating out, buy used clothes from yard sales instead of the “new stuff” store, the options to a payday loan are endless. Some people are willing to pay the interest on payday loans, and the lender is willing to trust them for the money. This is seen as a good deal by both parties, or the borrower would not borrow this way.

By: Jake

Jake — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 01:16:27 +0000

I think it’s this is real good advice about helping others. I find that people have a great deal of pride and mask there problems until they can trust you. Once a person trust you, and that can come by having them over and providing a meal with them, you can give them hypotheticals. Discuss your own goals and ask them to share theirs. Then ask them to hold you accountable for your goals and you will do the same for them. This is mentorship without them even knowing it!! It will raise there expectation of themselves, hence shallowing there bottoms.

By: Michael

Michael — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 22:37:51 +0000

First off, #’s 1, 6, 7 & 8 – it’s time that you stopped reading Trent’s work – your negativity is making me reach my ‘bottom’. My patience with the group you is running out. Rather than be grouchy about what he’s writing, stop reading and go to another author that better matches your perspective. Trent can’t connect with everyone – no writer can. Save us all of the ‘suggestions’ and move on. I get it – you used to get something from this blog and are not getting it anymore. That’s too bad, feel terrible for you. Now, your grieving is done – go crap on someone else, for I’m sure that’s what you’ll do. Or, better yet, if you’re so knowledgeable about blogs, start your own. Stop complaining and take action – leave.

Now, I like the notion of shallow vs deep – it’s true that some folks get the spark to change earlier in the process. Obviously, the more shallow the least amount of damage and the fewer years to recoup what was lost. My concern lies with the folks who are in deep who still don’t learn, then find themselves in deep again. “When you’re in a hole, stop digging” is a tough lesson to learn….

By: Jenny

Jenny — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 22:24:54 +0000

I found this post extremely insightful. I’m stuggling with how to support a brother of mine, but believe you are right in this. Got to step back and let them make their own choices, and then find the internal motivation to change. Thank you! Jenny

By: kristine

kristine — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 21:35:49 +0000

I prefer the negative interest rate of paying it off every month, and getting about 100/year in rewards gas cards

Honestly- I do not even know what my interest rate is, as it is irrelevant. Last time I checked, 8.99, which is really very low. My hubby has a credit score over 800, and BofA recently raised his rate to 20, (right before the new rules) because he also pays it off each month! They find it a nuisance to keep on the books, as he loses money for them, and they want to get him to leave!

By: Randy Schaller

Randy Schaller — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 20:46:32 +0000

It would be ideal if everyone were thoroughly educated on financial matters to the point of being able to avoid personal financial disaster before it happened. Obviously this is not the case. Some must learn from personal experience, the hard way. Once a person has “figured it out” I think it’s important to be proactive when you see people close to you who are making destructive financial decisions. The focus should be keeping people from falling, not waiting until they hit the bottom. This has to be done by educating, which you can do because you already learned “the hard way.”

Randy A. Schaller
Smart401k

By: SwingCheese

SwingCheese — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:41:10 +0000

I once cancelled a credit card because they wouldn’t lower my interest rate from 19.99%, even though I hadn’t been late, made more than the minimum payment, etc. I thought that 20% interest was absurdly high. Now I guess I had it (comparatively) good, haha!

By: kristine

kristine — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 19:32:55 +0000

@KIm- that’s a great insight. Good advice!

By: Kevin

Kevin — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:58:47 +0000

Banks in Canada are allowed to charge up to 60% interest.

PayDay lenders are explictly exempt from that limit, and can charge much higher interest.

Ain’t capitalism grand? :)

By: Des

Des — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:51:21 +0000

Actually, there is no upper limit for credit card interest rates if they are issued by a national bank. Rate caps vary by state, and there are a number of states with no cap, so banks are often located in those states to avoid caps. National banks are exempted from usury laws.

By: Sonja

Sonja — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:15:22 +0000

#13-I think the max rate they can charge is 29.99%. That is a penalty rate for accounts that are in bad shape; late, overlimit, etc. All of this is in the fine print in the disclosures.

By: SwingCheese

SwingCheese — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:50:02 +0000

Wowsa! This may sound naive, but I’ve never heard of a 24.99% interest rate. Is that really possible? How high can credit card interest rates go?