They are not privileges for two reasons. One they are not *parental* privileges because you do not qualify for them on the basis of becoming a parent. There are millions of parents out there who do not receive them. Thus, you’re wrong when you say they are parental privileges.

Even beyond the fact that you are CLEARLY wrong that they are a form of parental privilege, you are also wrong that because the definition of a privilege is NOT “a minimal standard of living that they have not earned” It’s not a special right. It’s part of a contract that our government has with its citizens.

Also, um, Johanna didn’t make the assumption that you didn’t assault a child in public. You STATED that you didn’t assault a child in public. Johanna didn’t assume you were lying at any point, nor did she accuse you of lying. Johanna asked if you wanted *praise* for not assaulting a child in public.

And again, if your takeaway from this is ‘people who have children are hands off’ then you really – you don’t understand anything at all. Try rereading it again.

Tracy – Food stamps and welfare are indeed special priveledges. In a world where people get what they earn, people who don’t earn don’t get handouts. In our society, we’ve decided to help those who may be down on their luck or yes, who make bad choices. They are raised up to a minimal standard of living that they have not earned, and they are not required to pay the funds invested in their upkeep back.

Yes, thats a priveledge. Ask anyone who lives in a country where the government doesn’t provide for the poor.

As for assumptions, Tracy – I notice when Johanna was *making the assumption* that “You mean you didn’t physically assault a stranger’s child in public? What a model of restraint you are! What do you want, a cookie?” – that you sat silent on Johanna making public assumptions about my behavior. Clearly you’re not bothered by assumptions when you or your buddies are scoring the points and congradulating each other. I noticed the *assumption* that I was straight up lying (that would be why Johanna was demanding examples) and your assumptions on what my behavior is like makes your ire all the more amusing.

But yes, if it makes you feel better, I now understand that people who have children they can’t afford are *not* to be told they made bad choices. People who have children are hands off, got it.

“you’re making a very firm line in the sand here – a PARENT comes first, no matter how well they provide and the village needs to first appease the parent and make the parent is comfortable”

When it comes to *parenting their own children* yes, they come first. I have no idea why you think you should have some sort of special rights to teach/discipline somebody else’s child. Newsflash: their rights also supersede the rights of parents of other children. That has NOTHING to do with ‘it takes a village’! Again, you are misusing the phrase.

“arent – who may or may not be fulfilling their obligations as parent – can at all times cut the village out of the loop but still get special priveledges from the village”

*sigh*

1) Food stamps? NOT a special privilege
2) Welfare? NOT a special privilege
3) The ability to tell you when/where/how you can interact with their child? NOT a privilege but in fact a *responsiblity* of the parent, because it’s part of their job to protect their child.

Or maybe I should say it like this – YOU are not he village. Cutting you out of the child’s life is not cutting the village out of the child’s life – it’s cutting YOU out. You, the individual.

And I really don’t care if you applaud them for their actions or not. But I have no clue why you included ” then I encourage you to explain how you reach out and do more to help those extra kids whose parents can’t afford them… I have a good feeling you’re not throwing every extra dime to people with children they can’t afford.”

You don’t have a ‘good feeling’ – you have absolutely no idea how I spend my time, energy or money. You have no idea because I haven’t mentioned them. I haven’t mentioned them because they are 100% *irrelevant* to this discussion, which is not about charity in the slightest.

If that’s the kind of input you give at a school board I’m honestly not surprised your input is dismissed as not germane to the discussion.

The very fact that I have to first make sure that the parents are comfortable is why “it takes a village” is nonsense in this modern time. If it really takes a village, *really*, then it shouldn’t matter. Now obviously we don’t live in a utopia, but you’re making a very firm line in the sand here – a PARENT comes first, no matter how well they provide and the village needs to first appease the parent and make the parent is comfortable… the village may be supporting the parent and child but the parent – who may or may not be fulfilling their obligations as parent – can at all times cut the village out of the loop but still get special priveledges from the village by dint of having a child.

Frankly I am well aware that parents who continue to breed after making it clear that they can’t support the children that they have, and I can’t stop them from continuing to have more children they can’t afford and whose lives they blight… but you’ll forgive me if I don’t applaud them for their irresponsibility. And if you don’t forgive me, then I encourage you to explain how you reach out and do more to help those extra kids whose parents can’t afford them… I have a good feeling you’re not throwing every extra dime to people with children they can’t afford.

You start by going in and saying ‘how can I help?’ and listening and helping *in the way they request*. You start with building a relationship and trust – once you have good will and faith, your input will be more likely to be respected and listened to – even though you’ll probably still get some things wrong, because that’s the nature of the world.

Well, have you considered that they could be correct in that instance? That they’re not saying it to dismiss you because you’re a non-parent but because you are legitimately wrong on the issue because of your lack of experience with parenting and refusing to listen?

Also, no, you’re not allowed to FORCE yourself into the roll of disciplinarian, teacher, etc. If that’s something you desire, it’s your responsibility to negotiate that relationship and it’s boundaries with the parents (or the organization you’re participating in.) You don’t just go in and start doing it without making sure the parents are comfortable.

“Tracy – being a parent IS a protected class as you define it. IF someone has a kid, if they fail to provide for that kid, our society will provide and the *parent* is not to be in any way judged or chastised for their failure.”

Um, that’s not true. Parents ARE judged and chastised. In some states, they have the children taken away from them if they have trouble paying utilities, for example. CPC is FAR more likely to take away the child of someone of a lower socio-economic status than they are of a higher one – even if the child of the wealthy family is being abused and the child of the poor family is not.

If that is not being judged or chastised, I don’t know what it is.

“Lastly, the one expectation I have of parents who are reduced to using feed stamps to feed their children is for the parents to make the decision to not to continue to have MORE children.”

That’s totally your right to wish that. It doesn’t make sense to make it an expectation, though, since it’s not a requirement of the food stamp.

And imo, it shouldn’t be, because we are already dealing with systemic poverty and exploitation of the poor and denying somebody family because of their economic status (even while our country is built on their exploitation) is pretty wretched.

You’re making my point. If I want to participate or have a say, or hey, correct a child in a public place, that is me reaching out to help. But time and again, parents get *irrate* over a non parent assuming any sort of teaching role is pushed aside. Back in the day, a parent used to thank someone for correcting their child’s misbehavior…. I honestly thought the mom in my incident was too busy dealing with the cashier to notice and would appreciate having it brought to her attention that her kid was being rude. I’m generally not one to overreact to “you’re fat!” from a kid, I only said something because if it isn’t corrected, kids keep doing it, and not everyone controls their temper as well I do. And I got yelled at for abrogating parental rights.

Tracy – being a parent IS a protected class as you define it. IF someone has a kid, if they fail to provide for that kid, our society will provide and the *parent* is not to be in any way judged or chastised for their failure. Lastly, the one expectation I have of parents who are reduced to using feed stamps to feed their children is for the parents to make the decision to not to continue to have MORE children.

The Mercedes doesn’t get hurt if it ends up repo’d. A child born into a family that knew going into a pregnancy that they couldn’t afford the child does get hurt and grows up with multiple strikes against him or her.

Johanna – if I am not just a wallet, then I expect my input at school board meetings to not be sniffed at with derision because “people without kids can’t understand”. I’m putting money into the system. Btw why did you need to know if I personally knew anyone who chose to have kids they coudn’t afford? What do you think about my cousin who had a second kid, with no money coming in, because it was important for the first kid to not be an only child, and to heck with the bills?

If you just want to berate parents you don’t think are doing a good job, you’re welcome to do that too, but it’s not actually very productive, as far as helping the kids is concerned.

This doesn’t even make any sense. Being ‘a parent’ is NOT some sort of protected class like you keep claiming it is. It’s not due to their status as ‘a parent’ that they’re ‘not required’ to ‘change their ways’ – that’s just flat out wrong.

Also, the ‘it takes a village’ thing you keep saying isn’t meant to be taken the way you keep saying it. It’s not about financial support – it’s about emotional support, relationships, etc. It’s pretty much the exact opposite of what you’re saying, which is a cold, hands-off, financial support only.

Lastly, a parent is laid-off from work due to extreme downsizing. What behavior(s) do you expect him/her to change in order to qualify for food stamps?

But because its not the kids fault, and because we can’t stop the parents from making this particular bad financial choice, those of us who are responsible have to help out. Its that whole “it takes a village” thing. Except that, the people who need the help aren’t required to change the behavior that got them there. Even tho, as parents, if they’re accepting government aid, they’re proving by that action that they as parents are not supporting their children, they’re “hands off” because they’re parents. As a member of society, it takes a village and my money is welcome, but thats all I am – a wallet.