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	<title>Comments on: The Different Meanings of Saving for Retirement</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/</link>
	<description>Financial talk for the rest of us</description>
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		<title>By: AnnJo</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982725</link>
		<dc:creator>AnnJo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Feb 2012 17:25:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982725</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Jim, inclusio unius est exclusio alterius.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, inclusio unius est exclusio alterius.</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982524</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 05:13:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982524</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;this implies that only those two options are available&quot;

No it really doesn&#039;t.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;this implies that only those two options are available&#8221;</p>
<p>No it really doesn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: SLCCOM</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982495</link>
		<dc:creator>SLCCOM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982495</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[PawPrint, I&#039;m sure there are families near you with kids who need an adopted grandparent. My own parents were born to women in their 40s, which was a heck of a lot &quot;older&quot; than it is today, so my grandparents were infirm and more like great-grandparents. I formally adopted several grandmothers, and they were very important to me!  

I&#039;m so sorry about your granddaughter.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PawPrint, I&#8217;m sure there are families near you with kids who need an adopted grandparent. My own parents were born to women in their 40s, which was a heck of a lot &#8220;older&#8221; than it is today, so my grandparents were infirm and more like great-grandparents. I formally adopted several grandmothers, and they were very important to me!  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m so sorry about your granddaughter.</p>
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		<title>By: AnnJo</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982494</link>
		<dc:creator>AnnJo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 23:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982494</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the post, Trent said, &quot;Retirement savings, in the form of a 401(k) or a Roth IRA, has certain advantages.&quot;   As phrased, this implies that only those two options are available for retirement savings.  Of course, Trent is not exactly a grammatically precise writer.  Anyway, I&#039;m glad if he is at least moderating his prejudice in favor of Roths.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the post, Trent said, &#8220;Retirement savings, in the form of a 401(k) or a Roth IRA, has certain advantages.&#8221;   As phrased, this implies that only those two options are available for retirement savings.  Of course, Trent is not exactly a grammatically precise writer.  Anyway, I&#8217;m glad if he is at least moderating his prejudice in favor of Roths.</p>
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		<title>By: Johanna</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982374</link>
		<dc:creator>Johanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 02:39:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982374</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@jim: I don&#039;t recall the specific phrasing Trent&#039;s using now (and don&#039;t feel like looking it up), but I think he&#039;s still saying that pre-tax accounts are better if &quot;taxes go down&quot; and Roths are better if &quot;taxes go up,&quot; but since you don&#039;t know which will happen, you should have a mix.  So at least now he&#039;s giving the right advice, albeit for the wrong reason.  I haven&#039;t yet seen him acknowledge that even if &quot;taxes go up,&quot; it is to your advantage to have some money in pre-tax accounts.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@jim: I don&#8217;t recall the specific phrasing Trent&#8217;s using now (and don&#8217;t feel like looking it up), but I think he&#8217;s still saying that pre-tax accounts are better if &#8220;taxes go down&#8221; and Roths are better if &#8220;taxes go up,&#8221; but since you don&#8217;t know which will happen, you should have a mix.  So at least now he&#8217;s giving the right advice, albeit for the wrong reason.  I haven&#8217;t yet seen him acknowledge that even if &#8220;taxes go up,&#8221; it is to your advantage to have some money in pre-tax accounts.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurie</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982364</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 23:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982364</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Personally, I think everyone should be saving 15% for &quot;retirement.&quot;  You never know what the future will hold.  I know people who have children that will always be dependent and will need substantial care after their parents pass on.  I know people who have had a stroke or other health issue in their early 50s and were unable to return to work.  

My father just spend 6 months doing chemotherapy and radiation at age 63.  He loved his job and planned on continuing to work until 67 or possibly later.  His company has held his job for him and he may end up going back to work, but it sure is nice to have a fat retirement account that makes it his option. 

I&#039;d hate to think of being forced to look for work after having cancer when my employer decides not to hold my job for more than 12 weeks when I&#039;m at retirement age!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I think everyone should be saving 15% for &#8220;retirement.&#8221;  You never know what the future will hold.  I know people who have children that will always be dependent and will need substantial care after their parents pass on.  I know people who have had a stroke or other health issue in their early 50s and were unable to return to work.  </p>
<p>My father just spend 6 months doing chemotherapy and radiation at age 63.  He loved his job and planned on continuing to work until 67 or possibly later.  His company has held his job for him and he may end up going back to work, but it sure is nice to have a fat retirement account that makes it his option. </p>
<p>I&#8217;d hate to think of being forced to look for work after having cancer when my employer decides not to hold my job for more than 12 weeks when I&#8217;m at retirement age!</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982361</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 23:34:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982361</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[AnnJo,  He also didn&#039;t mention Roth 401k&#039;s or 403b&#039;s.  I think he just listed the 2 more common retirement accounts.  
I have noticed more recently Trent has been saying its a good idea to have some of your retirement in pre-tax 401k/IRA and some post-tax Roth options to hedge your tax impacts.  I think he&#039;s made that recommendation to split between Roth and pre-tax in the mailbags at least a couple times.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AnnJo,  He also didn&#8217;t mention Roth 401k&#8217;s or 403b&#8217;s.  I think he just listed the 2 more common retirement accounts.<br />
I have noticed more recently Trent has been saying its a good idea to have some of your retirement in pre-tax 401k/IRA and some post-tax Roth options to hedge your tax impacts.  I think he&#8217;s made that recommendation to split between Roth and pre-tax in the mailbags at least a couple times.</p>
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		<title>By: moom</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982350</link>
		<dc:creator>moom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 21:46:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982350</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Retirement savings for those who&#039;d like to continue working are largely like an emergency fund. But I agree that it is not a good idea to put all your savings into a fund that is locked up until you are 60 or has difficult access before then.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Retirement savings for those who&#8217;d like to continue working are largely like an emergency fund. But I agree that it is not a good idea to put all your savings into a fund that is locked up until you are 60 or has difficult access before then.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheryl</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982336</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 19:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982336</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Saving for retirement gives you options and flexibility. You can always use that money. Have alternate plans and try to hedge against the unexpected. We expected to travel the world at retirement. Instead, we adopted our grandson and embraced full-time RVing in the US.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saving for retirement gives you options and flexibility. You can always use that money. Have alternate plans and try to hedge against the unexpected. We expected to travel the world at retirement. Instead, we adopted our grandson and embraced full-time RVing in the US.</p>
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		<title>By: PawPrint</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982325</link>
		<dc:creator>PawPrint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 17:09:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982325</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I would have loved to have worked until I chose to no longer work. Unfortunately, an unexpected health condition gave me no option but to go on disability when I was 50. I would have loved to spend my retirement years caring for my grandchildren. Sadly, my only granddaughter died three years ago, and none of my 5 children want to reproduce. Life has a way of tossing obstacles in your chosen path so you better have some alternate plans.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would have loved to have worked until I chose to no longer work. Unfortunately, an unexpected health condition gave me no option but to go on disability when I was 50. I would have loved to spend my retirement years caring for my grandchildren. Sadly, my only granddaughter died three years ago, and none of my 5 children want to reproduce. Life has a way of tossing obstacles in your chosen path so you better have some alternate plans.</p>
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		<title>By: Emma</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982324</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:35:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982324</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;As for Sarah, I expect her to very oriented toward volunteerism and any grandchildren we might have to take care of.&quot;Wow,great expectations. I guess no playing Bingo for Sarah. Trent leaves  no room for spontaneous action,, last minute decisions, chance or fate.The man in full control of his life. It is not the first time I hear about his grandchildren. His children are still in pre school and one still in diapers. G- d bless him in his plans.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;As for Sarah, I expect her to very oriented toward volunteerism and any grandchildren we might have to take care of.&#8221;Wow,great expectations. I guess no playing Bingo for Sarah. Trent leaves  no room for spontaneous action,, last minute decisions, chance or fate.The man in full control of his life. It is not the first time I hear about his grandchildren. His children are still in pre school and one still in diapers. G- d bless him in his plans.</p>
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		<title>By: AnnJo</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982321</link>
		<dc:creator>AnnJo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:15:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982321</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t know where Trent&#039;s animosity toward traditional (non-Roth) IRAs comes from, that he would even refuse to mention them as a retirement savings option.  As Johanna has very clearly explained several times, unless you expect substantial taxable income from other than retirement sources, you&#039;d be well advised to have at least enough income from a traditional IRA to allow you to take full advantage of your dependency and standard or itemized deductions.

That is a way to deduct your IRA contributions at the beginning, and still not pay taxes on the distributions after retirement.  Just because Trent refuses to think about this doesn&#039;t mean others shouldn&#039;t.

And second Johanna on not making assumptions about your desire and/or ability to work as you age.  Health conditions may make it impossible, and as someone who very much enjoyed her profession 30+ years ago when I started, I can tell you that not everyone stays as much in love with their work after that long.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know where Trent&#8217;s animosity toward traditional (non-Roth) IRAs comes from, that he would even refuse to mention them as a retirement savings option.  As Johanna has very clearly explained several times, unless you expect substantial taxable income from other than retirement sources, you&#8217;d be well advised to have at least enough income from a traditional IRA to allow you to take full advantage of your dependency and standard or itemized deductions.</p>
<p>That is a way to deduct your IRA contributions at the beginning, and still not pay taxes on the distributions after retirement.  Just because Trent refuses to think about this doesn&#8217;t mean others shouldn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>And second Johanna on not making assumptions about your desire and/or ability to work as you age.  Health conditions may make it impossible, and as someone who very much enjoyed her profession 30+ years ago when I started, I can tell you that not everyone stays as much in love with their work after that long.</p>
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		<title>By: jim</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982320</link>
		<dc:creator>jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982320</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[People who plan or want to work into their 60&#039;s or later should not forgo retirement saving.   A lot of people are forced out of work due to disability or layoffs.  Just cause you plan to work &#039;forever&#039; doesn&#039;t mean you&#039;ll get to.  So you should plan to need some retirement money.  

Plus even if you do work into your 70&#039;s, saving in a retirement plan will still be beneficial tax wise.  Whether you&#039;re working or not, at age 70 the tax benefits of 401k or IRAs are still going to help you.
So I wouldn&#039;t forgo retirement accounts for an alternate investment vehicle simply cause you don&#039;t want  actual retirement.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People who plan or want to work into their 60&#8242;s or later should not forgo retirement saving.   A lot of people are forced out of work due to disability or layoffs.  Just cause you plan to work &#8216;forever&#8217; doesn&#8217;t mean you&#8217;ll get to.  So you should plan to need some retirement money.  </p>
<p>Plus even if you do work into your 70&#8242;s, saving in a retirement plan will still be beneficial tax wise.  Whether you&#8217;re working or not, at age 70 the tax benefits of 401k or IRAs are still going to help you.<br />
So I wouldn&#8217;t forgo retirement accounts for an alternate investment vehicle simply cause you don&#8217;t want  actual retirement.</p>
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		<title>By: valleycat1</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982319</link>
		<dc:creator>valleycat1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 16:06:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982319</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Not saving amply for retirement in the expectation of being able to work into your 70&#039;s is not a good idea.  Stuff happens &amp; you could be unable to do so despite how much you want or plan to, or as Johanna said, you could change your mind.

In our case, my spouse wants to keep working as long as possible, but I&#039;m content to formally retire at 65.  But we&#039;re both maxing out our retirement contributions, because having that extra money gives us a lot of flexibility in how and where we accomplish that - and protects us if life doesn&#039;t work out the way we&#039;ve planned.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not saving amply for retirement in the expectation of being able to work into your 70&#8242;s is not a good idea.  Stuff happens &amp; you could be unable to do so despite how much you want or plan to, or as Johanna said, you could change your mind.</p>
<p>In our case, my spouse wants to keep working as long as possible, but I&#8217;m content to formally retire at 65.  But we&#8217;re both maxing out our retirement contributions, because having that extra money gives us a lot of flexibility in how and where we accomplish that &#8211; and protects us if life doesn&#8217;t work out the way we&#8217;ve planned.</p>
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		<title>By: Johanna</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982313</link>
		<dc:creator>Johanna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:17:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982313</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[So how does all of this fit in with the &quot;never rely on your future self for income&quot; principle?

I don&#039;t really know what I&#039;ll want my life to be like when I&#039;m in my 60s.  I like my job now, but I&#039;ve only been doing it for five years.  Maybe I&#039;ll be just as happy with it 30 years from now as I am now, or maybe I&#039;ll be burned out and ready to call it quits.

I also want to plan for the possibility that I&#039;ll be involuntarily retired - laid off in my early 60s and unable to find another job, for example.

For both those reasons, I want to at least give myself the option of a traditional retirement.  And since I&#039;m fortunate enough to be able to save enough to (hopefully) make that happen without sacrificing anything that&#039;s really important to me now, that&#039;s what I&#039;m doing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So how does all of this fit in with the &#8220;never rely on your future self for income&#8221; principle?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t really know what I&#8217;ll want my life to be like when I&#8217;m in my 60s.  I like my job now, but I&#8217;ve only been doing it for five years.  Maybe I&#8217;ll be just as happy with it 30 years from now as I am now, or maybe I&#8217;ll be burned out and ready to call it quits.</p>
<p>I also want to plan for the possibility that I&#8217;ll be involuntarily retired &#8211; laid off in my early 60s and unable to find another job, for example.</p>
<p>For both those reasons, I want to at least give myself the option of a traditional retirement.  And since I&#8217;m fortunate enough to be able to save enough to (hopefully) make that happen without sacrificing anything that&#8217;s really important to me now, that&#8217;s what I&#8217;m doing.</p>
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		<title>By: Sarah</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982311</link>
		<dc:creator>Sarah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 15:13:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982311</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t want to have to RELY on being able to make an income when I&#039;m older.  If I end up being able to (and enjoying) work until I&#039;m 75, great.  If I end up writing a novel that sells well, great.  But if I&#039;m about 60 and ready to be done with traditional work, I want to be able to walk away.  So, I save as much as I can for retirement right now.  Fortunately, I have an income that makes it possible to do that AND live a life I love right now, sacrificing things that really aren&#039;t a big sacrifice for me.  I travel now (because I love it) and everything else I love is pretty cheap.

Maybe I&#039;m just overly conservative, but encouraging people to consider saving a little less because they are planning nontraditional retirements seems... unnecessary.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t want to have to RELY on being able to make an income when I&#8217;m older.  If I end up being able to (and enjoying) work until I&#8217;m 75, great.  If I end up writing a novel that sells well, great.  But if I&#8217;m about 60 and ready to be done with traditional work, I want to be able to walk away.  So, I save as much as I can for retirement right now.  Fortunately, I have an income that makes it possible to do that AND live a life I love right now, sacrificing things that really aren&#8217;t a big sacrifice for me.  I travel now (because I love it) and everything else I love is pretty cheap.</p>
<p>Maybe I&#8217;m just overly conservative, but encouraging people to consider saving a little less because they are planning nontraditional retirements seems&#8230; unnecessary.</p>
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		<title>By: Steven</title>
		<link>http://www.thesimpledollar.com/2012/02/12/the-different-meanings-of-saving-for-retirement/#comment-982308</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Feb 2012 14:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.thesimpledollar.com/?p=8316#comment-982308</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Why wait for retirement? If there is something you think you want to be doing in 30 or 40 years, why not just incorporate it into your life today as much as possible? If volunteering is important, do it now. If you have dreams of traveling the world when you retire, why not get a start on it now while you&#039;re young and physically capable enough to get out there without aches and pains?

This isn&#039;t to say we forget about planning for our retirement, but I just don&#039;t believe that if something isn&#039;t important enough for us to pursue today, that it&#039;s going to be important enough once we retire. I don&#039;t think people change all that much after they retire. They are who they are their entire lives, and what they value doesn&#039;t magically change. The only difference is that once you retire, you have more time to do what you already enjoy. If that&#039;s knitting, or watching TV, you&#039;ll probably do more of that. If you valued volunteering or travel, you&#039;ll probably do more of that.

So, I guess what I&#039;m saying is this: find time now to do the things you dream of in retirement. There&#039;s no reason to put them off until the end of your life because by then you&#039;ll wish you had more time.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why wait for retirement? If there is something you think you want to be doing in 30 or 40 years, why not just incorporate it into your life today as much as possible? If volunteering is important, do it now. If you have dreams of traveling the world when you retire, why not get a start on it now while you&#8217;re young and physically capable enough to get out there without aches and pains?</p>
<p>This isn&#8217;t to say we forget about planning for our retirement, but I just don&#8217;t believe that if something isn&#8217;t important enough for us to pursue today, that it&#8217;s going to be important enough once we retire. I don&#8217;t think people change all that much after they retire. They are who they are their entire lives, and what they value doesn&#8217;t magically change. The only difference is that once you retire, you have more time to do what you already enjoy. If that&#8217;s knitting, or watching TV, you&#8217;ll probably do more of that. If you valued volunteering or travel, you&#8217;ll probably do more of that.</p>
<p>So, I guess what I&#8217;m saying is this: find time now to do the things you dream of in retirement. There&#8217;s no reason to put them off until the end of your life because by then you&#8217;ll wish you had more time.</p>
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